Live sound idiocy

[Boehmrunner]

I've GOT to get this off of my chest. I heard several concerts this past week, and I'll include the worship team at my church on this one. I'm SURE that this has to carry over to mixing ITB or whatever. The ONLY acceptable mixing I heard was done by an amateur at my church. I can't believe how stupid these mixes were. How many of you, who may never have mixed live, would conceive of placing the alto in a jazz vocal trio louder than the soprano (who had the melody at all times)? How many of you would mix a blues band, and have the bass drum sound like a hip-hop BD? How about, in EVERY instance (I'm talking 5 performances here), the CHUNK, CHUNK, CHUNK of the rhythm guitar took precedence over the lead or solo sound. Seriously? How does that work? I'm sitting in front of the FOH, hearing pretty the same sounds that they are hearing. CHUNK? Really? How about this? You've got a 12 member vocal jazz group that you're doing FOH for, and you sit there with your arms folded. RIDE THOSE !@)(*#$(*TY%!)(*U@)(*$(*Y^%)(!*&@)(#*)(&%Y!)(* Faders!!!!!!!

OK, I feel somewhat better now . . . thank you. . . Ugh.

[garageband]

doing FOH for, and you sit there with your arms folded.

Since a guy like that doesn't know what to do, it's almost better he do nothing. My nickel.

[acidfrost]

This happens to me 4 out 5 times I go see a concert too. Hell!! When I was doing shows with my band, we did about 30 shows, maybe one or two out of those we had a "decent" sound. Seriously, a lot of live people shouldn't be doing live sound. A lot of the time I saw them reading the newspaper or playing on their phone while I was waving my arms and pointing the monitor to crank my guitar in it.

[garww]

My guess is they didn't need instruments pumped, anyway. But, that would be too simple

[rook2c4]

That's why many band managers stand right behind or next to the mixing guy - to make sure it's done right.

If your manager is out taking a nap in the van (or busy getting laid backstage) during the gig, maybe you need a new manager.

[aj113]

I see this all the time. PA guys just don't seem to have ears. As a live engineer myself (many moons ago) I know as soon as I see those folded arms that the sound is never going to get any better than it is currently - which is invariably crap.

Sound engineering is like mixing and mastering on the fly, it's total headf*ck, - and with so many variable parameters in a live situation, the guy on the board should be permanently making adjustments for the entirety of the gig.

Instead we see folded arms, guys propping up desks as they chat up young nubiles, and even vacated positions as the engineer goes to the bar for a pint. It's just not on.

[garageband]

When I first did FOH for a decent band regularly (also a long time ago when I had an easier time with the young nubiles), I realized how much I could do to make the band sound hugely better by constantly working the mix aggressively as the shown went on. In order to do this, I figured out at the time, you have to learn the songs as if you were in the band - 'cause, at that point, you actually are. Nothing sucks a band down quicker than a band member who doesn't think he has to learn the music.

[venuestudio]

I shit you not, I actual found the sound man I had hired to man one of my systems at another club in the middle of the night...! I probably should have kicked his ass but you can bet he ended his employment at that point. And can you believe he couldn't understand what he had done wrong??

Sound engineers are not trained any more. It use to be that you brought a guy in, had him sit with you and learn for a few months before he touched a fader. It doesn't mean you will not have issues (like the idiot I got) but at least they have a fighting chance. The biggest thing they need to learn is they are doing SOUND REINFORCEMENT!!! you take the sound coming off the stage and add enough to get a good balance in the room. I have found that if the sound engineer is a drummer, the drums will be too loud in the mix, if he is a guitarist, it will be the guitars. Just seems to happen fairly often.

[venuestudio]

When I first did FOH for a decent band regularly (also a long time ago when I had an easier time with the young nubiles), I realized how much I could do to make the band sound hugely better by constantly working the mix aggressively as the shown went on. In order to do this, I figured out at the time, you have to learn the songs as if you were in the band - 'cause, at that point, you actually are. Nothing sucks a band down quicker than a band member who doesn't think he has to learn the music.

That is so true GB. I knew every song for the bands I worked for. You need to be ready for the solos, ready to drench a vocal in delays, etc. I ran FOH, monitors from FOH and lights so knowing what was coming was critical. You can also alter the mood of the room by changing volume or dominant instrument. Bring up that kick/bass a bit and people start moving more.

[aj113]

In my bands' heyday our sound guy was required to attend every band practice - he was considered just as much a member as anyone else.

[Boehmrunner]

Unbelievable. I think some guys do it because it's an "easy" gig. Set it and forget it.

I agree with you about people favoring their instruments. Being a band director, I don't tend to think that way. ;-)

[brandondrury]

I'm not a fan of running live sound. I consider my studio gig to be "creative" and live sound is more ditch digging, personally. Sometimes conditions make it impossible to get what you want due to other more important rules like "no feedback" and such.

However, I saw the most lazy, disgusting live sound event of my life about a month ago. I was at a wedding. The DJ scumbag didn't take his job (or LIFE) seriously enough to adjust the levels of each song. Dude! It's 2 f'ing faders. It takes exactly .5 seconds to account for levels. This kind of shit makes me hate the human race as a whole.

When you couple that level of entitlement (he was paid for that) with a HIGHLY technical gig it's no wonder that few people are good at it.

Then you have people like me who are still terrible at it because they are trying too damn hard. I digress.

Brandon

[v.k.d.f.]

our sound guy was required to attend every band practice - he was considered just as much a member as anyone else.

It is always a great thing to have a sound guy that knows the songs!!!
We did a show one time at a bar where the hired sound guy brought a overly big pa and had a full monitor system all routed into his computer with a reference mic set up in the back of the room. He said he was trying to "learn" the room. Which would have probably been awesome except the club is 25'x30' with a full bar and glass from floor to ceiling on 3 sides of the room. Really?!?! Just mic the kicks and vocals and STFU.
We have also had a few sound guys that we stumbled across at clubs where these guys make it sound great both FOH and monitors right off the bat, never hearing us before, and helped make it a great show

[garww]

.......................We did a show one time at a bar where the hired sound guy brought a overly big pa and had a full monitor system all routed into his computer with a reference mic set up in the back of the room. He said he was trying to "learn" the room. Which would have probably been awesome except the club is 25'x30' with a full bar and glass from floor to ceiling on 3 sides of the room. Really?!?! ...............

Ya, a dumbass is a dumbass.

[Boehmrunner]

Yeah, LS is kinda like being a pilot. You've gotta have a type "A" side in your personality. I get a real rush out of it. I've learned to understand that I can't pan, I can't set that kind of soundscape, but I can still do LOTS that carries over from the studio. There's nothing like the rush you get when you crank up the shout chorus (OK, I'm sort-of a jazzer) and you can see/feel the crowd respond. Then afterwards the band thinks they were smokin'. No time to second guess, you just go for it. It's different from studio, but the same. When it's live sound, you're working with a team. You listen to the choices the guitars and keys make in their patches, you wait for the piano arpeggios . . . pull back right before the last chorus, push the eighth-notes on the guitar and BOOM!!! . . . yeah, I've grown to really love it as much as sculpting in the studio. :-)

I'm not a fan of running live sound. I consider my studio gig to be "creative" and live sound is more ditch digging, personally. Sometimes conditions make it impossible to get what you want due to other more important rules like "no feedback" and such.

However, I saw the most lazy, disgusting live sound event of my life about a month ago. I was at a wedding. The DJ scumbag didn't take his job (or LIFE) seriously enough to adjust the levels of each song. Dude! It's 2 f'ing faders. It takes exactly .5 seconds to account for levels. This kind of shit makes me hate the human race as a whole.

When you couple that level of entitlement (he was paid for that) with a HIGHLY technical gig it's no wonder that few people are good at it.

Then you have people like me who are still terrible at it because they are trying too damn hard. I digress.

Brandon