Learning how to drum and displaying skills for constructive criticism. Educational. Fair use seems to apply.
That depends whether or not a judge deems it to be educational. If I was the judge, I'd let it go. However, you can't be sure because the definition of fair use is pretty open ended, which means that it depends whether or not the judge got up on the wrong side of the bed the morning of a given hearing (which is the only time Fair Use matters). There's little point in speculating or trying to rationalize it by ourselves, really. I'm really just saying that I doubt most judges would rule in the favor of Fair Use for something like this, based on the precedents my teacher showed us in that class.
Again, though, to even get to the point where a judge is involved, the copyright holder has to raise a fuss about it and that's unlikely to happen in the first place.
This is my argument. Where it is squarely in the gray area, leaning toward acceptable, you can sleep comfortably know the Digital Police will not be breaking down your door. Lots more bigger, more offensive, moar outlandish unauthorized, uncompensated usage out there than that.
"Well, if music's gonna move me, it's gotta be action packed!" - Johnny Dollar
Actually Shack, it's really not stupid talk at all. Prime time radio without a label....10k or more non-negotiable for one play of your song. It's $3500 just to get your stuff played on a major radio station at midnight where they put you in the "try or die category."
Ok Danny. The key word there is "Primetime". I've charted in the States TWICE and didn't spend more than the cost of emails, a good word from three friendly Nashville marketers and a good word from one of Country music's legens (and a good friend).
I didn't air on Prime time, I aired on hundreds (I don't know, maybe thousands) or small town radio stations not owned by Clear whatever.
And YES, it wasn't the Billboard charts it was some crummy indie chart run by a magazine out of California and circulating nationally.
But we sold the trak and raised tons for charity off the back of the first and made a few bucks off the back of the second.
What I am saying is doom laden talk of never getting int "the charts" because of trhe cash up front business isn't wholly true.
I did my whole thing from my studio in Northern England. A
You know what's funny? I couldn't get anyone but the three local stations close to me to play the tracks over here.
But the fact that I had airtime showing on my PPL & PRS accounts (copyright services in uk) won me the theme song job to a show that aired across the UK, was listened to by a JICTAR rated audience of 3.5m and sold well off the back of that.
and it was THEN that having work copyrighted mattered because the programme makers wouldn't divvy up for the airplay fees and PRS had to chase them.
SO I stand by what I say. Now, enjoy the theme song to the BBC documentary (now twice repeated since first airing).
Danny is dead on when it comes to cost to get played. Satellite is a little cheaper and internet radio is a joke.
Here is a copy of a take down notice we use for internet sites. It works internationally. Feel free to use it. It is not copyright material lol.
Interesting that the notice uses the UPC code as the identifier. Over here, we use ISRC's. (International STandard recording code (I believe)
I generate my own ISRC's for our music through PPL. There must be a similar service in the usa.
Most good MP3 tagging software (MP3Tag) will let you add the ISRC to the track meaning the coding is embedded.
But the ISRC code is NOT visible in most MP3 player software so copiers are unaware of it's existence. It copies from song MP3 file to MP3 file. So you can prove it's yours through that.
No problem, just interested.
I've had to do about 30 takedowns this year and used a similar form, but with ISRC instead of UPC.
Ok Danny. The key word there is "Primetime". I've charted in the States TWICE and didn't spend more than the cost of emails, a good word from three friendly Nashville marketers and a good word from one of Country music's legens (and a good friend).
I didn't air on Prime time, I aired on hundreds (I don't know, maybe thousands) or small town radio stations not owned by Clear whatever.
And YES, it wasn't the Billboard charts it was some crummy indie chart run by a magazine out of California and circulating nationally.
But we sold the trak and raised tons for charity off the back of the first and made a few bucks off the back of the second.
What I am saying is doom laden talk of never getting int "the charts" because of trhe cash up front business isn't wholly true.
I did my whole thing from my studio in Northern England. A
You know what's funny? I couldn't get anyone but the three local stations close to me to play the tracks over here.
But the fact that I had airtime showing on my PPL & PRS accounts (copyright services in uk) won me the theme song job to a show that aired across the UK, was listened to by a JICTAR rated audience of 3.5m and sold well off the back of that.
and it was THEN that having work copyrighted mattered because the programme makers wouldn't divvy up for the airplay fees and PRS had to chase them.
SO I stand by what I say. Now, enjoy the theme song to the BBC documentary (now twice repeated since first airing).
First off, congratulations my friend! That's awesome...and a catchy song to boot. I think where our grey area may be is you had mentioned "top 10". To me, that usually means top 10 on billboard...and I believe that was what Brandon was getting at also. I'm not speaking for him, it's just what I had assumed from reading his post for the fact that to do what you did, it's a totally different animal. Scoring songs or even selling songs as "works for hire" for segments and short films/documentaries isn't the same thing as the real top 10 as you know...so that was what I was talking about. Not to mention, as sad as it may be, those little charts don't make much of a difference in the real scheme of things but it's awesome to have in your resume "just because". It's good you got a little something out of that...way to go man!
On the UPC/EAN/ISRC thing...yeah, it should be ISRC. The UPC/EAN codes are for album tracking/cateloging. And yeah, we do have the ISRC service here which can be purchased through the ISRC web site or places like Disc Makers who will include the codes in a package deal which includes CD Baby distribution etc.
Man, I wish my band was popular enough to have people sharing our tracks online.
Just remember J, you will NEVER get an email from a fan that states "dude, I happened to grab a torrent of your stuff online. It was so good, I became a fan and will pay for your stuff from here on out!"
Though we hope, wish and pray it would work that way, unfortunately, it doesn't. As long as people can take things for nothing for the price of a connection or the use of a friends connection, they will do it.
Look at it another way...say you're a guy like me. I don't have a big major deal. One in Europe, one in Japan. Indy deals make the artist money faster in smaller amounts. If I was signed to a major label, I might get a fair advance, but you don't see any real money for a few years IF you're not used as a tax-write-off. So take a little guy like me....decent advance from an indy, and half of every CD sold once they recoup the investment. That's a really good deal. No middlemen tro pay, no points on albums...just straight up "once we make back our investment, we split sales 50/50 with you". So you start making a few bucks and it becomes your day job. You play a few shows and tour, make a few more bucks, still living off of sales...publishing, some endorsements.
Then those sales drop off and you notice the label isn't paying you as well on sales. The next album you do, you may get a smaller advance because you lost a few countries. By the NEXT album, you may not have a deal or the advance is so small and the sales are so dismal that you need to now start working a day job...oh joy!
If you were a bigger star, you might be able to absorb this...but because you're a little guy (like me) that has gained a little popularity, the more popular I get without a major deal, the more money I lose. Seriously...not tooting my own horn for a second here, honest...but did you click through all those pages of torrents offering my albums up? I've put out two albums total my entire life world-wide. It's nothing to brag about, but I'm very proud of my accomplishments. That said, the more popular I am at THIS stage of the game on the same labels, the more I lose. People figure with popularity comes money and fame. Sure, I've seen a little of that in my time...nothing major like Madonna, Muse, Blink 182, Disturbed or lil Wayne. But for all those torrents to be there, I must have done something right for a few people, ya know? It really takes a toll to the point where it's demoralizing for an artist.
Yeah, first and foremost we all do it for the love of music. However, when you get a certain age and really pay your dues, there is a side of you that says "ok, I can't do nothing else....I do this pretty decent, I'd like to be paid for it" and it happens one day....it's not JUST for the love. It's for survival...especially when you have a family, mouths to feed, bills to pay and you just spent a year of your time preparing a new album that took you 12 hours per day. Only to have to have it jacked for free...see my point? Trust me...like I said in my other post, it's flattering to see your name in torrent lights at first, but when you depend on that money your career makes you, it almost forces you to choose another career. Sad but true. I got another new album coming out in about 6 months or so that will have a way more powerful label behind it in the USA and Europe. If this one doesn't get me where I need to be...I shall retire into the abyss of engineering and leave the artist part for those who can take the blows of it and survive. It sure ain't easy...so be careful what you wish for.
Brandon: It DOESN'T cost - even hypothetically - $1,000,000 to get a top ten hit. That's stupid talk.
I got it from a Forbes article in regard to Rihanna's "Man Down" flop.
I'm not saying there aren't exceptions or that Forbes is even right, but they made a convincing argument. I seem to remember the plane ticket to fly Rihanna to 20 major markets and all other travel expenses were included in this. This was just for radio interviews. (Probably part of the payola scheme.)
I do have a question, though. If a person believes in the old school method where Creed or Colllective Soul can have a hit song spring up from nowhere, how do we explain this "Somebody That I Used To Know" phenomenon. I found out about the song when it had 60,000,000 Youtube plays. I thought this was grass roots until FHumble fHingaz corrected me that it was a huge hit down under and had one their version of the Grammy Awards best song.
Then someone said it hit Ireland and UK.
Then about 2 months later it exploded in the US and it's probably going to be the song of the year here. Songs move from Australia to the US at the speed of light, give or take. Was it that no one knew about this song in the US? Was I the first one? Bullshit. Buying the hit in the US wasn't done until much later for whatever reason.
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I've always heard both sides of the CD in the mail argument, and this is the first time I've actually seen concrete evidence for or against it.
What I'd like to know is how you guys still believe that any of this is relevant.
I 100% believe that the legal system is simply a silent auction. Whoever bids the most wins. I'm not sure if there is one law that isn't pliable with the right amount of money. The OJ thing is one example. My life experiences support this.
I keep seeing references by folks who are not worried if their music is put online or shared. The extreme question is what happens if your music is in the next James Cameron blockbuster or Justin Bieber hit? They make millions, you get nothing.
You always hear of the restaurants not singing "Happy Birthday" because of the potential royalties they'd have to pay. Is your song the next Happy Birthday? I know as home recording artists we tend to believe the audience is local or limited but I firmly believe if you have a good song, protect your interest. It's already been said though, you do not need to copyright your song if you can prove it's yours. BMI and ASCAP are companies that will register your song and then be the bulldogs if it's played. Some people like that, some don't, it's really up to you. Most of us record music that we hope will eventually be heard and in today's world of internet and iphones, it's too easy to lose the song to a ring tone.
If you have a good song, melody, etc. copyright it. Remember, there are performance royalties (a recorded song) and the mechanical royalties (reproduced). Some of the best songs you can name were handled in a manner where the record companies owned the royalties and got rich while the musicians were living on bread and water.
I keep seeing references by folks who are not worried if their music is put online or shared. The extreme question is what happens if your music is in the next James Cameron blockbuster or Justin Bieber hit? They make millions, you get nothing.
The whole point of the original post is that there is an almost 0% chance of that ever happening. the world is so over saturated with music that such a scenario would never happen. That would be like buying a new mailbox that always stays open just in case a winning lottery ticket is swept up by the wind, giving it a better chance of landing in my mailbox.
And even in the off chance that I did go to a movie and notice my song being played there, I essentially accomplished what I originally set out to do, only 1000x more. My personal goal with music at this point is to get people to hear the songs, and hope they like it. The more people who hear it, the higher the probability that more people will like it. Cool. I never had ambitions beyond that anyway.
And even if I did have ambitions beyond that, suddenly I have a massive audience of people who are more likely to want to hear my next song. Perfect. I'll copyright that one because suddenly there are a lot of eyes on it, making the chances for the first scenario to happen again.
But if I did copyright my first song and I told Mr Cameron that he'd have to pay me $20,000 to play it in his movie, he probably would have just used a different song, and I would have never left square one with 30 soundcloud plays. but at least nobody else would be making money off of it.
for those of us who are musical unknowns, I don't see any benefit from trying to protect our music from spreading.
My personal goal with music at this point is to get people to hear the songs, and hope they like it. The more people who hear it, the higher the probability that more people will like it. Cool. I never had ambitions beyond that anyway.
The tag line on our web site is "getting the music out there" and that's exactly it.
But I still say the "effort" and cost of copyrighting makes it the sensible thing to do.
wow and holy shit ! I'm almost afraid to post on this thread based on the varied beliefs of copyrights and whether they are necessary or real.
First and for sure, the poor mans mail it to yourself will NOT hold up in court.
Second, yeah it costs a lot to go to court if you have to defend yourself, We've all heard puff daddy say "I'll steal it and pay the consequences" that makes him an asshole in my book but a lot of people in the biz feel that way.
Third, if someone noteworthy (famous) actually does lift your song, and you don't have it copyrighted, you won't see a dime. If you do have it copyrighted and win, you'll get payback, that can be a lot of money if the song gets popular, think of "thrift shop" for example. Go ahead and try and steal it and see what happens.
Plenty of examples of big names stealing no-name's music and losing in court. The no-name gets paid and if you have a decent lawyer (I use that term loosely) your court costs will be covered by the one that lost.
Just because you're a famous star doesn't give you special privileges in the court's eyes.
Now you can take somebody's song and change it up so the average listener wouldn't identify it with the song you're ripping off, but look at the Joe Satriani Coldplay lawsuit for example. Joe won, and I doubt Coldplay had any intention of stealing or even heard the song by Satriani.
It's not expensive to copyright like Danny says, and considering the time and effort it takes to make songs, it's a small price to pay.
Whether or not you believe in your music, or think your'e just a small fry, many big names search out the youtube and internet sites for new material and would gladly pay you to use your song. Kenny Chesney did it with "someone like you" and that song became a radio hit and is a great song IMO.
Just because there are songs and songwriters in the BMI and Ascap library doesn't mean artists have time to sift through all that.
Wille Nelson just did a cover from Pearl Jam "just Breathe" a fabulous song. Willie say's "I don't have time to listen to everybody's songs out there"
In the end , it's a personal choice but if you are a career songwriter, one song can be all it takes to get the ball rolling, it's up to you, and all of this is how I feel, doesn't mean you have to agree or feel the same way. Yeah that song "somebody that I used to know" homemade and kick ass. Nobody knew of Gotye till that one song.
If you do want to cover a song, go to Harry Fox Agency. It is a small fee to record and release a cover of a song by another artist. Every Engineer out there should have this information readily available for their perspective clients!!
If you do want to cover a song, go to Harry Fox Agency. It is a small fee to record and release a cover of a song by another artist. Every Engineer out there should have this information readily available for their perspective clients!!
isn't it like $13 for a thousand copies ? that can add up, also I think the list is a bit limited IMO, but I agree/ kind of, there are choices on there and covers can make a band more noticed. If they had great covers like "sunshine of your love" on there or "Smoke on the water" maybe It would be worth it.
The Band Bar Thread, I'm Sick Of Copyright Fear in Misc. Crap; Learning how to drum and displaying skills for constructive criticism. Educational. Fair use seems to apply....
Re: I'm Sick Of Copyright Fear
