Looking for examples of Boomy Acoustic Guitars

[brandondrury]

Can you guys name any recordings where you thought the acoustic guitar was big and boomy? I'm trying to do some homework here.

Brandon

[dach]

only one jumps out at me: Butterfly Boucher. Works in the mix but sounds like it was recorded at the soundhole/bridge... but ac gtr is not as prominent in that song so it doesn't matter.

Many of the older recordings, stuff Like John Renbourne (spelling?) sound horrible but it's the music that matters.

Brandon... jut mic it where it works with the song. I have a signal chain that's as nice as anyones and a 5K guitar, but last night I did ac gtr with my $100 spruce top. I didn't use a 57 but on hindsight it may have worked better... the only way it could have been better is if I had a better room... just do what works...

Martins are a pain and only work well if you have a good room, however, with some models you can do it normally and roll off/shelve the low end completely and it will work great, but that just depends on the part and the midrange of that particular instrument... just do the eq on the way in and make sure the player doesn't move....

[brandondrury]

How does the room come into play with the Martins moreso than other Acoustics?

I think I know what you are going to say here, but I'm going to hold back from guessing so I don't like an even worse of an idiot.

Brandon

[dach]

you are not an idiot at all. On a boomy Martin, you just can't cram a mic up against it... maybe on top, but you need some distance without all the comb filtering of a crummy room.... however, sometimes the boom is ok if it's balanced with the top end. If not then you'll need to do some serious eq.

[brandondrury]

I remember when tracking the Martin last week or so I had to walk by the guitarist for something. When I looked over, I just started laughing at my mic placement. I was content with the tone, but after tracking for a few hours I had forgotten where I had placed the mic.

It's amazing how the stupidest looking mic placements often work out great.

In fact, I don't remember ever putting a mic anywhere near the soundhole.

but you need some distance without all the comb filtering of a crummy room....

Yeah, this was my theory too. I find that I can get away with moving the mic toward the nut of the guitar and it does pretty well. I've never tried just moving the mic back more than 3 or 4 feet (because of the room). Although I have had great luck from time to time with the mic back around 1.5 - 2 feet.

I don't see how some peole just slap a mic on the 12th fret and call it day. It seldom works for me.

Brandon

[dach]

I've found as a general rule, that mics in front of the guitar sound much better above the plane of the neck of the guitar than below.... the hard part is figuring out exactly where....

[brandondrury]

above the plane of the neck of the guitar

How far are we talking here? (I understand that it's never the same twice). On average are you 2" above the neck or 2'. Either way, I'll be trying this "above" method in the very near future.

Brandon

[dach]

Wherever it needs to be.... even, 6 inches, 2 feet... wherever. Realize that the soundboard/top produces different sound in different areas of the soundboard. Not that above is always correct, I just do it that way. I've yet to mic very far under the plane of the neck and like it much, whereas above works for me....

If you have a hypercardiod mic or shotgun, even use a cardiod if that's all you have (SDC)
place the mic close to the guitar near the bridge/saddle area. strike a note and move the guitar up and down and side to side, without scratching the guitar or popping the mic. listen to every area of the exposed wood. You should hear some drastic tone changes.

I couldn't find what I was looking for but check out these links... specifically the last two if you want to see the actual vibration patterns....

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/guitar/intro_engl.html

also

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/music/gu...erns_engl.html

and

http://www.astro.cf.ac.uk/groups/aco...hy.html#fotos1

Micing anywhere on the guitar is valid... you just need to make it sound right for the part...

[dach]

Not to confuse anyone, I posted those links as a visual reference, not exactly to prove anything... because the last two links are not exactly the same thing... but you to see that different areas of the soundboard are responsible for making different frequencies... that is way oversimplified but I hope you get the point.

You can get some really great and very rich sounds by micing around the soundboard, problem is, many times you will get some things you may not want... just get rid of those with a little eq or change in mic placement either in distance or angle of the mic.

Think of it like this, session ac gtr player "A" has several gigs this week and he's using the same guitar (not likely, but just go with this....).

His first gig is country strumming where they want that really HF percussive element and not the sound of the meat of the guitar because it's a dense mix... well, he'll probably use a thin pick and be miced (perhaps with a brighter/harder sounding mic?) at a location(s) that minimizes boom... say somewhere around the nut to the body.... the engineer "may" cut or shelve much of the bottom and perhaps boost some frequencies in order to help it cut and sparkle - if it needs it, not to mention compress the crap out of it to make the dynamic range "0".

2nd gig is a demo for a new up and coming singer... they are just pitching a gtr/vox piece to the record company. We need a traditional gtr sound here so he'll probably use a thicker pick because there are lots of arpeggios. The eng will probably throw a single mic at around the 12th or do a stereo pair... the goal here is to get a "natural" recording and not have to use much eq and compression, just enough to make things "sit".

3rd gig is a quick rhythm overdub on some traditional "django" jazz type stuff... The part is subtle, yet driving traditional rhythm... think projection not loudness but we're still using a thicker pick. The eng will probably mic somewhere above and in back of the bridge for that midrange meat and pull the mic back to get the best balance... maybe a little eq if necessary.

Next gig is ac gtr for a "mature" pop recording. This is not a feature part just a complimentary part. Mostly some light strumming but some arpeggio stuff as well... eng might place a spaced pair, one above and down the neck joint - 7th fret and one pointing down at somewhere behind the bridge.... while minimizing phase between the mics. The goal here is either to have a decent stereo recording with different timbres on each side OR to blend them into a single sound... depending on whatever works better.

Gig 5 is a special effect percussive type part. Thinner pick. Eng will place mic 1 where it sounds the best and compress crap out of it and mic 2 10 ft away and facing into a corner. He may end up delaying and opposite panning mic 2 for a cool delay effect.

hope this garble helps a little..... the moral is just try to make it sound right for the part...

[brandondrury]

Insane post!!!!

#1
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/music/gu...erns_engl.html

This is freaking awesome. I never really thought about the physics behind where a guitar resonates. This could be an interesting video. I may have to add to my huge "to do" list.


#2
You post was awesome that I put it into a blog just to make sure that more people see it! http://www.recordingreview.com/artic...ding-Tips.html

Thanks Dach!!!

Brandon