Amp help?

[crooked09]

I walked through a music store today and I looked around and kind of realized that I don't know what I'm looking at or for. I fiddled around a little bit but uh... I have a few questions:

Digital vs tube: what difference and how significant is this really? How much of this is mental?

Watts: is this a true/only measure of volume capacity?

Brand: I really don't know where to start on this. I'm looking for a general heavy metal tone, sorry for not having a better description... but like I know that Marshall is pretty solid but do other (possibly more inexpensive) brands possibly fit the bill as well?

I realize these questions are kind of elementary and I know I can't get totally conclusive help off of this but I'm looking for a good starting point if possible

Thanks a lot

[mindundermatter]

As far as "digital vs. tube" you're leaving something out: solid state. I'll explain the differences now.

Tube amplifiers use vaccuum tubes or "valves" in their circuits to produce their sound. They are generally regarded as sounding "****" or "thick." People prefer them because they produce a more "natural" distortion when overdriven. This is what most Marshall amps use and is most likely the sound you were referring to (you can't beat a Gibson run through a Marshall; classic!). For a good heavy metal tone, you should check out the Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifiers. The caution here is that the tubes produce a lot of heat and sometimes can be expensive to replace, depending on the type of tube used.

Solid State amplifiers use semiconductors instead of tubes in the circuit. They were developed in the late seventies and made the amps lighter and less prone to overheating. The downside is they use odd harmonics to produce their distorted sound (very unnatural), so you lose the "****th" the tubes gave you. But you gain a "crunchy" sound. Check out some of the Randall amps for a good solid state metal amp.

As far as Digital, I think what you are referring to is Modeling Amps. Modeling Amps use modern technology to "model" the sounds of classic amps such as the ones I've already mentioned, Fender Twin, etc.

As far as choosing one, it all boils down to personal preference. I personal think solid state amps sound harsh and nasty, while modeling amps just sound fake. That's just me though. I've jammed with other people who won't play on anything BUT a solid state amp and even others who use nothing but modeling amps because of the variety of tones you can get. My best advice to you is to go to Guitar Center (or some other music store), grab a guitar and plug in and play to your heart's content. If you're anything like me, you'll know which one you want as soon as you hear it. It's pretty immediate.

For the record, Watts are a measure of POWER, not volume.

[mindundermatter]

I can't say ****?

[jdbunda]

Originally Posted by crooked09

Digital vs tube: what difference and how significant is this really? How much of this is mental?

It is rare (if it even ever happens) for seekers of the grail of awesome distorted guitar tone to find it with a digital/modeling amp (at least I have not heard of it). That day may come, but for now, I myself would only consider a modeler if I wanted the flexibility in a small package, and was willing to trade off sonics for convenience. I used to think this sounded like a snobbish position, but the fact is, the modeling stuff sounds pretty cool at first blush, but to my ears, it lacks crucial depth and dynamics. Now - would most listeners be able to tell? No. Still, I will say this - I am no purist, but more and more, I find digital effects, amp models, and so on, to add or subtract from the signal in unmusical and unpleasant ways - but of course YMMV.

Watts: is this a true/only measure of volume capacity?

Technically, it is a measure of power output, and there are several other factors (e.g. driver efficiency, impedence, etc) but yes, in general the number of watts affects how much noise you can make. Having said that, you can probably get by with a lot fewer watts than you think.

Brand: I really don't know where to start on this. I'm looking for a general heavy metal tone, sorry for not having a better description... but like I know that Marshall is pretty solid but do other (possibly more inexpensive) brands possibly fit the bill as well?

This is very difficult. How much do you want to spend? Will you be using this amp for recording, performance, both? For example, if it's just for recording, it's possible to get huge tone out of a good quality small amp. If you need to fill Carnegie Hall - entirely different story.

That said, here is where I would start if I were you. Consider several three moderately sized 1x10 or 1x12 quality tube amps in your budget range. If you can, take YOUR guitar to the store, go on a Thursday morning (or whatever) when no one is there and you can spend at least an hour. Set all three up side by side, and configure each to approximately the same loudness with clean tone (and NOT loud). Then play each for at least several minutes at a time, just relaxed playing the way you would while fooling around at home, a mixture of styles, riffs, and textures, various places on the neck. Try to notice subtleties of tones, how well the amp tracks loud vs. soft playing, and so on. Next, add some distortion - keep the loudness the same, but add some gain - not a lot, you want to see how it begins to break as you overdrive. Again, play a good several minutes on each once you have it dialed in. After all this, NOW try to dial in killer tone on each. How easy is it? How many DIFFERENT good tones can you get? Do all of this at low volume levels, then, if you can, crank up to your performance level and see how well it works. You won't be able to tell much in a store environment, but just make sure it stays relatively stable as you crank the main volume knob.

If they all sound the same to you, well, vote with your wallet. I suspect, though, you will find you can eliminate one or more of them from consideration. You should NOT move up to higher wattage and or size until you have done this basic test. If you want to try a modeler, add it to the mix AFTER an hour or so of playing through tubes.

Sorry this went so long - good luck.

[garageband]

Solid. jbunda handles the heavy lifting.

No, you can't say the word to describe the condition between room temperature and hot. It's worse than a dirty word in audio: it's meaningless. I'm sure if you look around, Brandon has a diatribe of sorts as to what a foul and useless word it is.

[mindundermatter]

Man, you guys are killing me here. I took a class on critical listening and that word was listed as one of the many specific words for describing how something sounds. You're acting like I don't know what I'm talking about or something.

[garageband]

I believe it's Brandon's personal prejudice and he's certainly entitled. It does make me laugh when I think about it.

[mindundermatter]

THAT is an acceptable explanation.

[mindundermatter]

I suppose 'bright' is out of the question as well, since it refers to the intensity level of light and not a characteristic of upper-level frequencies in the audible spectrum? Oh, and not 'dull' either because it refers to the sharpness of a blade. I could go on...

[crooked09]

Thanks for the comments guys, that does answer a lot of my questions. But now a few more -

Right now I've got a 30W Behringer GX110 which is definitely solid state and I'm not sure if its considered a modeling amp but it has like 100 different digital FX that you can cycle through (it says 24 bit processor would this make it sound noticably different than 32 bit ones?). Anyway this one doesn't get loud enough to be heard clearly over my friend's drums, and I also don't care for the sound (it does have this, again, not sure how to describe it but a cheap/fake sounding overtone). Because of this I've been looking just at 50W+ amps but actually, is it possible for another 30W amp to be louder than the 30W one I've got now? And for tube how much louder is 30W tube than 30W solid? Maybe it wouldn't be as expensive as I think if I don't have to get the same wattage.

My price range is like around 300$ but I'm willing to buy used so that might go up to about 400-500$ regular retail. So here's some of the ones that I picked out at guitarcenter.com that looked appealing. Anyone have an opinion on some of these? There was a shocking 60W tube amp for 315$ - does anyone know what B-52 brand is like? Besides that I didn't find any tube amps above 5W that were under 400$ which is very odd. I'm also skeptical that a 75W Peavey is 300$.

Peavey Envoy 110 Guitar Amplifier with TransTube Technology and more Guitar Amplifiers at GuitarCenter.com.

Peavey Vypyr 75 75W 1x12 Guitar Combo Amp and more Guitar Amplifiers at GuitarCenter.com.

Peavey Bandit 112 Guitar Amplifier with TransTube Technology and more Guitar Amplifiers at GuitarCenter.com.

Marshall MG50DFX Combo Amp and more Guitar Amplifiers at GuitarCenter.com.

B-52 AT-112 60-Watt 1x12" Tube Combo Amp and more Guitar Amplifiers at GuitarCenter.com.