Where can I improve here?

[Edu Cesar]

I just recorded a song for my friend's band. It's just a demo and its pretty rough (i just wanted to record some ideas). It's not my style of music, but I'm trying to learn it.

I used direct line guitars and bass (with amplitube 2 and ampeg) and the drums are EZdrummer Drumkit from hell (VST).

I don't quite like how the drums sound, I'm trying to figure out how to tweak it to have a more natural sound (if that's possible, LOL).
I set the overheads to bleed (because it sounds more natural on EZdrummer), but I get too much of the snare and hi-hat sound. If I just turn the volume down I almost can't hear the cymbals. I'm trying some EQing but nothing satisfied me yet.

Also, I don't have proper monitors or a treated room, so sorry if the mixing and EQ are crappy!

What can I do to improve this recording?

Thanks

Edu

[brandondrury]

What's up with the timing of the snare? It sounds behind? It's not an engineering thing. It's either a programming thing or a performance thing. It's very WEIRD! I'm guessing that these drums are quantized. Is the snare landing exactly on 2 and 4? If that's the case, it's clear that for a song like this the snare needs to be pushing WAY harder. This is the best example of this I've ever heard.

The guitars sound good to me. Every day my tolerance of direct guitar goes up.

Actually, I've written a blog about this very recording.
MIDI Drum Sample Programming: Perfection Doesn't Work

Brandon

[uab9253]

I thinks sounds pretty killer. I am still waiting for my EZ Drummer to arrive from Sweetwater, and although I won't have the kit from hell, this is still pretty encouraging as an illustration of what it can do. I can't find anything to hate on for this one. Nice.

[brianinogang]

i think this is a pretty decent mix. nice guitar tone. may experiment on the velocites on the dfh to make it sound more human(for the snare problem). and look into brandon's post about "Perfection does'nt work". maybe it would help. nice punk song bro.

[Edu Cesar]

Yay! I thought nobody would ever comment on this thread! Now I got all the attention because of my bad drum programming, lol...

Well, I'm a little busy right now. I'm gonna read the blog entry later and write a few words.

Anyways, thanks for the critique, It's always helpful. This sounds very odd, but I'm glad my (crappy) song was used as an example. As a beginner in home recording, it also makes me want to push myself harder to improve and learn.

Thanks!

[madcatproductions]

The bass drums and toms seem to be at a lower volume overall than the rest of the programmed kit. otherwise good start.

[brandondrury]

Now I got all the attention because of my bad drum programming, lol...

I wouldn't call it "bad" programming. I'd call it programming that could be more intense. How about that?

I'm glad my (crappy) song was used as an example. As a beginner in home recording, it also makes me want to push myself harder to improve and learn.

Thanks for volunteering to be a casualty of war!

Brandon

[Stratomaniac]

WOW!!! That snare is, well... Kinda cool depending on your perspective... But then I'm a bluesey, folky kinda guy anyway...fast music just confuses me. Nice job. I hope my next project comes out as good.

[indyola]

Each hit of that snare does not sound like a hard hit on a real snare by a real human. It sounds like a soft hit with a skinny stick by a robot that was programmed to play light jazz. This quiet-sounding snare is simply being added loudly to the track and it comes off sounding unnatural.

I would find another sample (or four) that sounds more like a 16 year old banging the hell out of a cheap snare in his basement. Or make one (with a 16 year old in your basement holding a heavy stick backwards) and make sure that the low frequency component of the sound is captured as well.

You might even try recording just the snare live to capture the variations in timing and hit strength. (I would do this at half speed, to be able to keep up.)

[brandondrury]

WOW!!! That snare is, well... Kinda cool depending on your perspective... But then I'm a bluesey, folky kinda guy anyway...fast music just confuses me.

Interesting. I didn't think there was much room of subjectivity on this one. I guess I was wrong.

[pdalmolin]

Brandon is exactly right on the quantized snare idea. You should try to push these ahead. But, what you really need is a real good drummer interpretting and playing this song! I would be happy to play real drums to this for FREE. Go to my Real Studio Drums and feel free to contact me to discuss this. Or, just send me your tracks with no drums and click to pdalmolin@realstudiodrums.com. I'd love to give it a try. If you don't like it, don't use my tracks. No sweat off your nose...
This situation with your song is the exact point I make on my website. And would love to prove my point.

[kjtaylor1]

Let me start by saying I like the flow of this track. I have listened to this track a few times and while I agree that attaining realistic, humanistic drum tracks via programming is highly improbable and downright hard, I think the live instruments (lead and bass guitars) could be closer to the quantization or more on the beat than ahead of it IF that is how the drum track is playing. It just seems like at some points in the song the timing is a little off. If the drums are quantized on the beat and that is what you are using as your metronome, then the lead and bass should fall in line with it, not the other way around because the drum track has already been laid and quantized. That being said, I am enjoying the track as I type this response. I tend to record more gospel, R&B, and jazz influenced music, but enjoy the creativity of all genres.

[pdalmolin]

Yes BUT, his guitars ARE pushing. That "lean forward" feel is what makes the excitement of the song, or gives it "travel" instead of laying there like so much capt'n Crunch in a box. The drums should do that too. It takes someone like (me) and Brandon first of all, to hear that and second, know what to do about it. To just push ahead the whole drum track or pull back the other tracks to match the drums isn't enough. (although it would probably help some).

[kjtaylor1]

I, too, heard that the guitars ARE pushing. But to tighten up the sound either re-record the guitars or re-quantize the drums. The push is nice but if everything does not match the push, the sound is not cohesive. I know in Cubase there is a 'nudge' feature. Maybe that could be used on the already quantized snare track (assuming that feature is available on whatever, if any, software package is being used).

[brandondrury]

But to tighten up the sound either re-record the guitars or re-quantize the drums.

I think quantize is what got us into this mess in the first place.

We could record this song both ways: With everything pushing (and leaning forward) or we could snap everything to a grid. I already know what happens when music like this is snapped to a grid. It's the same feeling your dog gets when his balls are chopped off.

I needs to be said that this natural 'sway' of the feel of the song has been there for decades. This is how music has always been done. Now that we have some line that says the snare is supposed to go here, people think this is the "right" place to put it. It's not a bad start, but it's only right when the snare should be right on beat. It's not the sound you hear on your favorite fast records. I couldn't imagine what would happen of Offspring "Smash" was quantized. It would take all that angst and replace it with a good little schoolboy.

There is a time to pull. (when the snare is behind). It's all about feel for the song. The really good bass players know when to push and pull as well. Some producers will intentionally have the bass player stay behind the beat for engineering reasons. It can make the kick drum sound bigger. (If done properly, it's not dramatically different than ducking the bass from a sidechain). We are talking just a few ticks here.