Racing Hearts

[Charlie_M]

Still tweaking in the performance in some respects (many parts of the vocal) but wanted to see where it's going so I made up this mix. Main thing I'm not so thrilled with is that the electric guitar doesn't sound "big" enough to me for some reason.Actually pretty happy with how the acoustic guitar sound came out. It's not the most rich acoustic guitar tone you ever heard but that is just about what my acoustic (Seagull M6) sounds like when you're sitting in the room with me playing. Appreciate feedback on any aspect. Thanks.

Charlie

[brandondrury]

Damn out of tune acoustic guitars. (Besides being out of tune, they sound pretty good).

Something is going on in the drums. It sounds like a L2 limiter or something has knocked all the attack off. Whatever you did involving compression on the drum bus, I'd do a little less. Something is just weird about them.

Electric guitars panned center? Something about that sits funny with me. Most of the old timers don't like the doubled guitars, but I'm a big fan of 2 guitars hard panned.

I'm not sure if I like the vocal "mood". In other words, I'd be less "singy" and more "tired" sounding if that makes any sense. Of the top of my head, I'm thinking the "Boys of Summer" by Don Henley verse. I'd take something like that.

If it was me, I'd take a less "live" approach to this recording. The picked out guitars in the verse, I'd use reverb and less gain. (Maybe cranked Fender type of thing).

I'd find a way to deviate verse #1 and verse #2.

I like where you are going with the solo. It sounds like you know what you are doing, but I think you could get more balls in it. I'd push you really hard to make thing really scream if I was producing. It's not so much the notes you were playing, but there were crucial notes that need to convey DOOM. Not that you should copy anyone, but there were certain notes in their that Eddie Van Halen would have shaken just right and make scream.

Brandon

[Charlie_M]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Something is going on in the drums. It sounds like a L2 limiter or something has knocked all the attack off. Whatever you did involving compression on the drum bus, I'd do a little less. Something is just weird about them.

I'll take another shot at it. I compressed the snare quite a bit to avoid the clipping indicator... however it's also true that while I was getting a clip indicator it didn't sound to me like it was clipping.

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Electric guitars panned center? Something about that sits funny with me. Most of the old timers don't like the doubled guitars, but I'm a big fan of 2 guitars hard panned.

I'll go have another look but I thought I had them doubled and panned wide. I guess it didn't come through that way?

Originally Posted by brandondrury

I'm not sure if I like the vocal "mood". In other words, I'd be less "singy" and more "tired" sounding if that makes any sense. Of the top of my head, I'm thinking the "Boys of Summer" by Don Henley verse. I'd take something like that.

Understand and agree. Just so happens that yesterday I heard boys of summer and thought.. ya that's what I should be doing in the vocals.

Originally Posted by brandondrury

If it was me, I'd take a less "live" approach to this recording. The picked out guitars in the verse, I'd use reverb and less gain. (Maybe cranked Fender type of thing).

I struggled with this decision... live sound or more produced sound. I agree it sounds a little "raw" this way. This one actually IS less gain than my earlier attempts. I had one version with even less gain in that section but never did try reverb. Normally I dislike reverb on guitars so I probably need to give that a good listen.

Originally Posted by brandondrury

I like where you are going with the solo. It sounds like you know what you are doing, but I think you could get more balls in it. I'd push you really hard to make thing really scream if I was producing. It's not so much the notes you were playing, but there were crucial notes that need to convey DOOM. Not that you should copy anyone, but there were certain notes in their that Eddie Van Halen would have shaken just right and make scream.

Appreciate those remarks. The solo is more or less extemporaneous. I put it on loop record and tried about 5 different concepts and liked this one best so went with it. Agree it needs more polish on the performance side, especially judicious use of vibrato, and getting that little "choke" out of there where it stalls briefly.

Thanks a lot for that constructive feedback!!

Charlie

[brandondrury]

I had one version with even less gain in that section but never did try reverb. Normally I dislike reverb on guitars so I probably need to give that a good listen.

Well, I'm not talking about plugin reverb. I'm talking about amp reverb. Obviously, those are insanely different.

Yeah, no problem dude. This mix is exponentially better than your last one. Keep up the good work.

Brandon

[thesilentdrummer]

Originally Posted by Charlie_M

I'll go have another look but I thought I had them doubled and panned wide. I guess it didn't come through that way?

Maybe you doubled the track and panned hard. But did you record the track two different times and pan take 1 one way and take 2 the other?? If not, then you successfully put the same track on the left and right (which will sound exactly like a center panned guitar).

[Charlie_M]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Well, I'm not talking about plugin reverb. I'm talking about amp reverb. Obviously, those are insanely different.

Yeah, no problem dude. This mix is exponentially better than your last one. Keep up the good work.

Brandon

Ya... I figured you meant amp reverb. I normally don't like it but maybe time to broaden my horizons on that one and give it a try. I am trying to make the guitars sound bigger so maybe a little cleaner and some reverb will do that. Thanks for the tips and encouragement !

[Charlie_M]

Originally Posted by thesilentdrummer

Maybe you doubled the track and panned hard. But did you record the track two different times and pan take 1 one way and take 2 the other?? If not, then you successfully put the same track on the left and right (which will sound exactly like a center panned guitar).

Ya that's what I did. I delayed one of them relative to the other which seemed to thicken it a bit but maybe it would do that moreso with two different performances? I'll give that a try too. Thanks.

[thesilentdrummer]

Originally Posted by Charlie_M

Ya that's what I did. I delayed one of them relative to the other which seemed to thicken it a bit but maybe it would do that moreso with two different performances? I'll give that a try too. Thanks.

If done correctly, your method can work. But the difference in the two tracks isn't distinguishable enough. If you want to do that, do some more delay.

[Charlie_M]

OK cool you guys have given me some good ideas - thanks. I'm starting to think about mixing various amounts of clean / dirty / dry / reverbed guitar parts, playing with levels of the diferent voices in a subtle way to bring out the dirt when that's called for and letting the dirt go into the background leaving a more shimmery reverby clean sound through some of the other sections where that fits. I have no idea if that'll give me what I want but I think I can hear that kind of evolution working in the song. Probably take me a friggin month to have the spare time to record it, but will try to at least make a trial version of the concept some time soon and repost when I have something that seems to me to be an improvement on the gtr sound. Thanks again.

Charlie

[Charlie_M]

OK curiosity got the better of me... Been a long week and I really should've gone to bed but I just tried the following:

1. 1 time through on gtr with low gain and reverb, panned hard right
2. 1 time through on gtr with low gain and reverb, panned hard left, with deja vibe set on vibrato at a very low speed and very low intensity
3. original dirty track straight up the middle

sounds rough as hell right now but it's clean enough that I hear what you guys are talking about. I think this is the bigger, more open guitar sound I was hoping for but was eluding me previously.

Based on what I hear right now I'm thinking I may end up with a pretty large number of tracks just for guitar. Like maybe 5 or 6... I'm thinking 3 I have now plus a few that only come in at certain places with a high gain sound and no reverb. I had just one before (duplicated so you could call that 2 depending how you want to do the accounting...). Will post again when I get it sounding as good as I can with these ideas.

Charlie