progressive-ish instrumental

[jdaug]

this is the first version of a song i just recorded-no name yet. this mix was done with headphones and "pretend" mastering. i havent listened to it yet on a normal system. bash away on mix and content...

[S Cavell]

excellent insrumentation! heheh
very nice guitar work!, phrasing, rythm, composition,..the whole package
really.
I can hear the levels you were going for in the mix and I can tell you
have a good ear. My gripe with it is probably what ever happened in
your Mixdown or "bounce" process. The volume seems to be jumping
around a bit. most likely because one or more tracks( seems the bass
or kick really) is jumping past 0db?? before you mixdown?

or maybe this happened in the "pretend mastering" phase.
I cant be sure but I have ended up with similar results myself
(final audio wise) I can't touch you on guitar man.

Mind posting the methods you used to get to this result/stage.
I have a feeling the low end is a bit hot and you should redo
the mix, Or take your stereo audio mixdown and mess around
cutting low end frequency, maybe around 100hz -2 or more?
then try another bounce.

I'm sure some one else can give you more detailed advise

Killer track!

[brandondrury]

Cool music. This is going to be bad ass when you get it right. The music is really cool.
I'm curious what you did in your "pretend" mastering. I'd immediatley pull that crap off and post your unpretend unmastered mix. There are some issues that need to be dealt with and I can't tell if the pretend mastering is the problem or what.

The first thing that strikes me is the drums have a strange, EQ'd tone to them. They sound okay when the guitars and stuff come in, but at first they are a tad strange. I think you may have done this to compensate for other wierdnesses in the mix. It's a 2Khz kind of thing. I usually prefer to get the cut from my drums a little higher.

Is there a lot of EQ on these guitars? It sounds like there is.
On my speakers, I'm hearing a weird something in the low mids. I'm guessing it's a 400Hz. It's a boxy wierdness. It could have been caused by weird room acoustics. There is also a bitey 2-4Khz thing that hurts a little bit.

At :28, I think the synth thing should be much more out front. It sounds like you haven't made up your mind if you want it there or not. I'm sure your guitars would get smaller for this part, but there is no question. I'd take the hit on the guitars and get that synth up for that part. It'll help the dynamics.

That lead is also really bitey (trying to cut through all the other bitey stuff).

There is a lot of 400Hz stuff going on. I expect that this is the reason that 2Khz has been overemphasized.

I think you are on to something great here, but the mix needs to be stepped up to make it consistent with the quality of the music.

[jdaug]

heres some of the methods I used and EQ profiles for the instruments in question.

what i called pretend mastering was taking the final mix wave file, importing into a new project as 1 stereo track, then applied a little compression and limiting. no eq.

the drums are the EZdrummer DFH kit. I did use EQ and some compression on some of the instruments.
kick: cut 280hz, boosted 7500, compression
snare top: narrow notch at 600, compression and verb
snare bottom: high pass at 100

i didnt use hardly any eq on any of the other drum instruments. i did use a fair amount of room mic though.

I also used a decent amount of bottom snare in this mix, possibly thats the boxy issue?

all the guitars were tracked in isolation box using both sm57, ribbon and DI, so no room considerations. I ended up only using a little of the DI and ribbon tracks. its mostly sm57. same for bass.
rhythmn guitars: cut everything below 100, narrow boost at 180 and 2800
lead guitar: no eq on this one, but i used really hot amp patch and then some flange and delay sends in the mix. i was going for a really harsh alexi laiho tone, but i thinks its too harsh.

bass boosted around 60 and 120

nothing was boosted at 400, so maybe that was in the recorded tone of the guitars?

the synth part during the "verse" I left buried on purpose. i didnt want it to be heard as much as you just know its there. the guitar is supposed to be the dominant instrument there. not sure if I like the buried synth or not.

thanks for the feedback and any more specific suggestions

[brandondrury]

I also used a decent amount of bottom snare in this mix, possibly thats the boxy issue?

The drums didn't sound boxy anyway.

all the guitars were tracked in isolation box using both sm57, ribbon and DI, so no room considerations.

That's not exactly true. The isolation box is the room. Depending on the box, it could be causing all kinds of mayhem or adding all kinds of good stuff.

You have 3 sources on the guitar then? (red flag) Are these phase coherant? I've gotten better results by keeping my rig simple, personally. I realize that many engineers like to use a complicated guitar setup. I've never found any benefit in this, however.

rhythmn guitars: cut everything below 100, narrow boost at 180 and 2800

That 2800 may be a problem. I'd consider a cut in the 400Hz region.

lead guitar: no eq on this one, but i used really hot amp patch and then some flange and delay sends in the mix. i was going for a really harsh alexi laiho tone, but i thinks its too harsh.

I could tell what direction you were going, but I agree, it's a little much.

nothing was boosted at 400, so maybe that was in the recorded tone of the guitars?

It may be the guitars. It may be a conflict between multiple instruments building up in that region.

the synth part during the "verse" I left buried on purpose. i didnt want it to be heard as much as you just know its there. the guitar is supposed to be the dominant instrument there. not sure if I like the buried synth or not.

This is a creative choice on your part. I didn't feel like it added anything in it's current state.

Now that I hear you have 3 sources on the electric guitar, I'm hearing some weird shit. If it was me, I'd focus on getting just the 57 right. Unless you have a one these http://www.littlelabs.com/ibp.html on the ribbon and the DI, I'd guess you were in comb filtering hell.

How much time have you put into phase alignment?

Brandon

[jdaug]

on the guitar phasing issue, I recorded 3 sources just for flexibility, but didnt use them all simultaneously in the mix. the main rhythmn guitar mix is 90% sm57 and 10% DI. the ribbon mic tracks were muted. i had the understanding that you only get phasing if you actually play back both mic-recorded tracks at the same time. in other words, the phasing isnt recorded into the tracks-it only occurs when both tracks are playing back.

I didnt do any rhythmn guitar layering or doubling. its just a standard 2 part guitar riff, panned each hard left and right. each rhy guitar part is one track of the 57 and one DI which were recorded at the same time, with most of the tone coming from the 57 tracks. DI track faders are really low, and I just used it to add a little smoothness.

so, to answer the question, I didnt put any time into phase alignment because I didnt think it would be an issue unless I were to actually use both tracks, which I didnt plan on. the one thing I did was to switch the phase on the ribbon's preamp during tracking.

Ill mess around with the 400 hz area and see what happens.

[jdaug]

version 2

muted the DI rhythmn guitar tracks, so the rhythmn parts are just 1 sm57 each side.

notched out these 2 remaining rhythmn tracks in narrow 400hz area (i didnt do anything to the interlude part in the middle)

decreased effects levels on guitar solo and put a high shelf to kill some of the harshness.

bumped up the synth part in the verse 1db

didnt mess with the drums cuz im not sure what is wrong with them, if anything.

[S Cavell]

The over all volume still seems to be unsteady to me and
it drops out at times. The guitar dominates the first minute
and a half of the track and then falls into the mix.
I think between 3:00 and 4:00 minutes the mix seems most
even.
Still a killer track man, great composition. Sorry I can not offer
you any advice, just tellin' you what it sounds like through my
headphones.
keep at it

[brandondrury]

MUCH BETTER! The guitars are much better. There is still some buildup in the 100-200Hz range. It's the bass and guitar adding up together. You could either cut this range in the electric guitars, compress to keep the palm mutes from jumping up as much, or use a multiband compressor and just knock 1 or 2 dB off the 100-200 region in guitars.

This should be a subtle thing. Since you are getting really close you have to be very precise and subtle in the mix or you'll do more harm than good.


Another option would be to boost the bass by 2dB (narrow) @ 125 and cut it by 2dB @ 250hz and then on the guitar bus cut 125Hz by 2dB and then boost 250 by 2dB. This little trick does wonders for giving the illusion on low end. I do it all the time with kick drum and bass guitar.

At 0:56 I'm hearing a compressor of some kind pumping. At least that's what it sounds like. Are you hearing it?

I still think the synth sounds like you haven't figured out exactly what you want to do with it. Maybe you could double the MIDI track and raise the second one up an octave? At least that would trigger some higher notes and let it sit in the mixer a little better even in it's very low level.

@ 1:42, the whole track loses level. I presume this is from the lead going out out, but it sounds like more than that. I'd give more space for that lead if it were me. I developed a track that has worked awesomely over the years for me. You may not like it.

I snag the rythm guitar buss and ramp the their volume down progressive during the solo. So on the first note of the solo, the electrics are at their usual level, but the end of the solo, they may work their way down by 2-3dB. You brain won't notice it unless it really pays attention. This does 2 things. It subconsciously makes the solo sound more powerful and when the solo comes back in, you punch it back up to the regular level (I'll usually go 1 or 2dB louder than normal and then ramp that downward too).

This mix is really coming together!

Brandon

[jdaug]

killer tips dudes, thanks. i hear the volume surge that brandon and scavell are talking about. i thought it was just tired ears, but i guess its real if im not the only one. i figured out it was the effects send for the rhythmn guitars. i recorded some automation for the sends to raise the delay level at certain points in the song for emphasis, but they are fucking it up.

i usually record delay swells while tracking (with an expression pedal) because it helps me in the performance, but this song i did all dry. i figured i could add delay swells as a send in the mix. i think the problem may be that i used a send effect instead of an insert. not really sure how this works for this type of effect. i think ill just kill the delay on the rhythmn guitars or make it one consistent volume throughout the song.