Piano tune

[Andrew07]

Hey guys this is a mix I did on a different set of monitors. Pretty straight forward tune, but if you could bash the mix I'd appreciate it.
Haven't done automation yet but I think piano could use some
One piano track (Ivory) with a little LA2A and some bass/mid subtracting EQ
Vocals with some Plate140
I had meant to mix with some Mandy Moore song as reference, but couldn't find it

www.cherryhillrecording.com/wav/77_rough.wav

[richiebee]

I think the piano sounds too forward, the voice too far back. The voice is lacking body too. I don't know if that's the intention, but to me it needs a low end boost.

I guess the piano is a rock piano sound. It sounds like it might be lacking some dynamic variation that would give it a more rounded feel. Again, maybe that's the intention. It just doesn't sound real to me.

Nicely performed. Good song.

R.

[Hcochoa]

Sorry dude, there's no way I am gonna sit here and download a 47.6MB song.
You need to convert it to a MP3.

You can forget anyone with dial up ever listening.

[brandondrury]

Fair warning! My left speaker is out and I still haven't gotten off my ass to mix it.

The thing I'm hearing are issues with producing more than mixing (but that's kind of part of it). The piano sounds like it's a loop in terms of dynamics. I would have broken the song down to be very sparse and built the intensity of the piano. I'd do the same with the vocals.

I think if the performances were a little more "expressive" your job would be 1000 easier. I say you have brought it back down at 3:30 or so. I would start along those lines build and come back to it.

I agree with Richiebee about the vocal sound. It's lacking some bottom. I'm usually not a big fan of tons of low end on vocals, but I think this one has a little bit of....2-4K ness to it. I think that's okay, but it's needs a tad more low mids to balance it out.

Do you plan to really produce this song or are you going to leave it in "demo / live on Letterman" style?

Brandon

[Andrew07]

www.cherryhillrecording.com/mp3/77_rough.mp3

Brandon, don't worry this was recorded a few months ago before I got on the producing kick. I was messing with a different set of monitors last night and thought I'd try a mix

The song is too long, but since it's for her parents' anniversary, I wasn't sure where she should cut it. I did fade out 30 seconds earlier. Richiebee, listening today I agree that the vocals are way too low.

EQ-wise it's kinda shitty too. I shelved the vocals to 110hz, sucked (too much I guess) 3-4db of the mids, and boosted somewhere around 3k. Listening back the vocals sound really harsh, spitty, way too fucking breathy (I promise it's not the compression, she just sings like that), and there's this weird sound she tends to make with her mouth. Like if you put your tongue on the roof of your mouth up to your teeth, slowly open your mouth, and move your tongue down. How would you guys suggest EQing this?

Piano is really boring. I might try to do some volume automation but I doubt that will change much. If I had recorded this now I would do something like yell at her and try to get her to play with more oomph and gusto during the louder parts, and prettier and more flowing during the quieter parts.

[brandondrury]

Interestingly enough, the way you describe the EQ is exactly what I didn't like. (Damn monitors!). I'd do a mix with no EQ and see where that gets you.

I know you were going for the "hifi" type of thing, but that doesn't exist as much I once thought. The added 'thickness' may be better for the song than the hifi thing.

Another trick I've been doing is kind of keeping everything on the "thicker / less hifi" side of things and then using my pretend mastering to take out a little low mids and maybe add a high shelf. It's worked pretty well lately. You can hear less phase issues this way, and if you do it right, it works amazingly well.

Piano is really boring. I might try to do some volume automation but I doubt that will change much. If I had recorded this now I would do something like yell at her and try to get her to play with more oomph and gusto during the louder parts, and prettier and more flowing during the quieter parts.

I 100% agree.

Brandon

[richiebee]

Originally Posted by Andrew07

Piano is really boring. I might try to do some volume automation but I doubt that will change much. If I had recorded this now I would do something like yell at her and try to get her to play with more oomph and gusto during the louder parts, and prettier and more flowing during the quieter parts.

I don't think this is the problem. I think its either a lack of sensitivity in the keyboard (seems to play either loud or soft... nothing much in between), or a lack of dynamic variations in the samples. If you still have the MIDI data for the track, I'd try reducing the velocity of everything by 30 or so and see if it rounds the sound out a little. Gain can be brought back with the volume control!

[Andrew07]

Shit, I seemed to have tossed the MIDI data...

This song isn't a keeper, but the vocal sound is similar to the results I get now, and it's bugging the shit out of me. On this updated version I changed the reverb on the vocals, took off all eq, and removed the deesser.

Any EQ tips on how to get the vocals a little smoother and not quite as sucky?

www.cherryhillrecording.com/mp3/77.mp3

[richiebee]

Do the vocals have compression on them? Either recorded at source or added after? It sounds to me that this is where the problems start.

R.

[brandondrury]

A lot of it is in producing. Listen the first verse.

The word "you" bothers me in the line "in 1977 you were".

Actually, I hate the way she is singing this song completely. If I remember she broke down. I would have started the song super duper soft / sad sounding / whatever. Of course, soft singing has a certain "magical" tone to it (especially to rock guys who don't get to record it much).

So that's part of it.

It sounds like she is singing at church or something where they teach you to really push your voice. I don't buy that crap at all. Soft songs should sound really really really soft. Loud songs should sound really really loud.


Another thing I'm hearing is the reverb. It's pulling the vocal back and making it distant. This is KIND OF what reverb is supposed to do. On a vocal, I'll use a shit ton of predelay. On a song last night I had like 120ms. It's a different approach to reverb by cranking up the predelay the vocal gets WAY closer but stil has space in it.

Overall, This doesn't sound too bad right now. I dont' think there is anything I would really do to this song without totally redoing it.

As far as 'thickness' is concerned, it depends a lot on the singer. Wagener was super big on getting a thick vocal sound. In fact, I thought the vocals sounded wierd, kind of nasally, dull, and too thick through tracking and half of mixing. Of course, I thought everything sounded this way. Then, he added a high shelf with his Manley on the 2Bus and EVERYTHING sprang to life.

So I've experimented with the thicker vocal sound. Obviously, a large diaphram condenser helps this. Recording in cardiod and using the proximity effect helps as well. It depends so much on the singer, really.

Brandon