new song-metal/prog/industrial/instrumental

[jdaug]

this is my latest effort done with mic'd guitars for a change. its also the first song ive done with EZ drummer. bash away...

[Gitarted]

Nice work!

I think you have quite a bit of low-mid buildup happening.

And I would go for a crisper drum sound.

I would take some of the verb off the drums so they cut through in the mix, they are kind of getting washed out...this would bring them more up front.

as far as the low-mid buildup goes...

Every instrument has sound in the 200-300hz and what ends up happening when you start to layer many tracks together is you get a buildup of tones in this frequency range.

it can start to muddy up the mix, it can also mask other parts to the point of canceling them out.

so in a short explanation...you kind of have to start trimming off some of the "fat" or all the detail you've tried to emphasize/bring out will get lost in the bog.

this is where the importance of "the song" over the individual parts comes in.
and, to really hear the detail of the different parts(mainly talking about heavy guitar parts) you almost need to cut out a place (in the frequency realm) for the various parts to sit.
it's like trying to paint a picture with only one or two colors.
...if everything is the same color you wont be able to see the detail.
well it's the same with making a mix sit well with it self. you may need to use a different tone on different parts to make them stand out from the rest.

all in all I think you have a pretty good grip on the recording process, and a damn good Git player as well.

I think if you work with frequency ranges and the tones of the various parts you'll be in there.

*here's a little experiment to try:
take two guitar parts that are recorded with the same tone (like a doubled rthm guitar part) pan them hard L, hard R. now, on one track start fucking with the EQ (while you can hear both parts...NOT in solo) you'll notice that the farther you tweek the eq of one track the more seperation you will get between them. almost like the stereo spectrum got wider.
...you can use this to your benefit to pull parts out of the mix that you want to hear better.

well, sorry for being so long winded.

hope that helps

D

[DT Chris]

This song makes me want to do some James Labrie vocals over it

[jdaug]

This song makes me want to do some James Labrie vocals over it

NOOOOOOO!!!!! anyone but him. Sorry-I love DT as long as there is no singing going on.

And I would go for a crisper drum sound.

I would take some of the verb off the drums so they cut through in the mix, they are kind of getting washed out...this would bring them more up front.

I dont like how the toms ended up, but those were the best sounding samples in EZ drummer. My DFH expansion for EZD arrived today, so I may see if there are any better samples in there. As far as reverb goes, only the toms had verb applied. I had the room mic pulled pretty far down to try to get the drums as isolated as possible, but maybe need to bring it down a little more. I noticed that with the room mic volume up, it gave the drums a reverbish quality (i guess from the room ambience).

Do you know of a good starting point EQ profile for metal guitars?

thanks for the FB

[Gitarted]

yep!

http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

this thread has the best info for recording heavy distorted guitars on the planet.
download the thread to your 'puter so you can print it, or reference it when needed. dont miss the MP3's at the end of the text.

it has everything you'll ever need to know to make your guitars cut from a mile away.

ho ho ho! (you'll see what I mean)

[brandondrury]

The low end in your guitars is muddying up everything. Put a high pass on at 100Hz and I bet the entire mix will come together very well. You may consider putting a multiband compressor on just the low end of the guitars up to around 300-400Hz.


You can hear the low end of the guitars pumping your two bus compressor at times as well.

Besides the mud issue, I think you've got a badass little thing here.

----

The drums have tons of attack. ALMOST too much. I'm BIG on lots of drum attack, but you may have taken just barely over the edge. Maybe not. This is an issue of taste, more than anything.

I don't like the way the kick drum sounds @ 3:00 when it goes to the piano part. I'd switch sounds to something else and come back to it when you go double time at 3:25.

---
Your lead guitar has some mud in it too. Again, high pass filter @ 100Hz and maybe a multiband comp....maybe not.



Overall, I think there are times when the guitars may be a bit hot. By the time the track is over, I feel a bit "tired". In other words, you've ass pounded me enough where it doesn't hurt anymore. I'd use volume automation at opportune times to make sure the ending still sounds relatively huge. You'd be amazed at how powerful it can be to pull them down 2dB and then punch them back up at the right time.

Volume Automation: The Most Powerful Mixing Tool


Overall, I REALLY like what you've got here in terms of composition. Great work. After a few tweaks, you'll have something awesome.

Brandon

[jdaug]

great specific tips guys-- thanks a lot. one question, and im not questioning Brandon's advice I just need to know the "why": the guitar tracks were done with a 7-string guitar on purpose to get the low end from the guitar as well as bass. if I use a high pass at 100hz, does that negate the low B-string on the guitar or is 100HZ below the useful range of this instrument, or does it just work in the context of the overall mix?

to me the guitars sounded really good solo when I tracked them, but i agree they got muddy the more layers i added to the song. i couldnt figure out how to correct that, but I wasnt looking at the low end. I was thinking i needed to mess with the mids and highs.

[Gitarted]

did you try the EQ trick i mentioned?

[jdaug]

nah im going to rest my ears for a couple days before screwing with it. got no time anyways. i read and downloaded the link you mentioned though. good shit. thanks.

[brandondrury]

I wrote this yesterday.
How To Deal With A “Picky” Mid Scooped Guitarist
It covers most of it.

im not questioning Brandon's advice I just need to know the "why": the guitar tracks were done with a 7-string guitar on purpose to get the low end from the guitar as well as bass. if I use a high pass at 100hz, does that negate the low B-string on the guitar or is 100HZ below the useful range of this instrument, or does it just work in the context of the overall mix?

Read the bold part VERY carefully. I'm not sure how many dudes you like to share your women with (I'm guessing zero), but that's how the low end words. Having 2 low end thingies is kind of like a threesome with 2 dudes and only one chick. Not only does it not make sense, it's morally wrong. (However, 1 dude and 2 chicks is obviously a TOTALLY different story ).

How many instruments do you want to hear in your subs? Fire up any record that you think sounds awesome. When do the electric guitars fight for the low end in the kick drum. I'd be SHOCKED to hear any good sounding recording where the guitars fight the kick drum. If you find one, let me know what album.

You can still totally use the low end heavy guitars, you just can't take a shit on the rest of the mix. In other words, it's all fun and games to fire up the 7 String and shake the house, but what about the song?

Did you record this song because you wanted to hear "woomph woomph" from house shaking palm mutes? ....or is there so other reason? Granted, you don't have lyrics or anything, but what kind of movie or video game would this fit behind? I'm guessing a fight scene.

What is the point of mixing? The point of mixing is to make the song most effective. When I hear your tune, I imagine a fight scene. So EVERYTHING I'm doing is based on the notion of making the fight scene more "violent" or whatever. I can't imagine how mud will do anything for that.

So you worked hard to get low end that distracts from the goal. Well, if I was mixing this song, I'd say too bad. I'm trying to make this song sound mean. The mud in the guitars is self serving and doesn't make the song better.

With that said, putting a high pass @100Hz on the guitars and using a multiband to tame the low end is NOT going to make them sound weak. Not even close. You won't be negating the low B either because of the harmonics from that B string go throughout the frequency spectrum. In fact, the tone will be there exactly like you imagined, you just won't hear the low end turning to diarhea. You probably don't hear the mud on your monitors. Listen on enough stereos with subs until you find one that brings out the mud. You'll hate it too.

All your favorite recordings with massive sounding guitars have the low end rolled off. Trust me. (Either that or they are arranged in a way to make a low end heavy guitar work).

to me the guitars sounded really good solo when I tracked them,

Solo buttons are useful for.....well. Off the top of my head I can't think of a great reason. Oh, I know. When something is wrong and you are not sure which track is screwing up your mix, a solo button can help you find it. Other than that, they are pretty much useless.

I'd be use the same caution with a solo button as I would with my weiner and a guitine.