Indie/alternative/rock song

[thesilentdrummer]

Hey, I have this song that needs some bashing, please don't hold back. I hate people who aren't honest about problems. The only way to get better is to hear what's wrong. with that said,

BASH AWAY!

[brandondrury]

Alright, honesty you will get. This one needs some work....although the song is pretty damn good. I like the chick / dude combination. It reminds me of something Human League but with a band behind them instead of a bunch of synths. (This is a compliment from me although the rest of society probably doesn't agree).

Drums are boxy. 500 Hz has got to go on the entire drum bus. Listen at 1:13. A person could emulate that snare sound by hitting a pizza box. The drums have GOT to crack in pop / rock music. Listen to any major label song and then listen to these drums, it'll be clear what you need to do. Try searching (in the box at the top right of any page on recordingreview.com) for "parallel compression" and it'll help you out quite a bit.

Possible causes of the drum issues are the drummer not hitting the drums not NEARLY hard enough, tuning not being ideal, the room being boxy / boomy / too small. Even still, it's usually necessary to add EQ.

The chick vocals are really aggressive in the 3Khz area. This is normal. Chicks often need different treatment than dudes. This is more obvious in the beginning of the song when she's over singing before the song calls for it. (In my opinion). It's possible that she may not have enough low end. Try cutting 1-2dB of 3Khz first. If that doesn't help, try using a low end shelf boost. See if that helps.

I'm hearing direct guitars too. YIPPIE!!! (sarcasm). I think the guitars are screwing up the rest of the mix. When someone decides it's a good idea to make the guitar sound like you plugged it into a mixer and turned the gain on the mixer all the way up, it takes a clean signal and puts a ton of fizz on it. This fizz is screwing with the cymbals and the high end in the vocals (even Nine Inch Nails guitars don't fight the vocals like these do).

Assuming we lived in a perfect world and the guitar guy used a well setup Marshall Plexi, you'd hear the the shwah sound in the guitars (like if you Shawshank Redemption). That "aw" sound sound is what we want (to some extent). On this mix, we have the "shshshsh" sound. This leaves a whole that the "aw" sound would normally fill and gets in the way of the "shsshshs" stuff (vocals, drums) as mentioned above.

I'd do some work on this one. The song is worth taking the time to improve the mix.

Brandon

[thesilentdrummer]

Thanks for your attention Brandon.

The dilema:
This is my really good friend's band. She (the chick vocal in the song, also plays piano) and I have been working on music, sometimes independently, sometimes cooperatively, for the last 7 years. We have critiqued and supported each others musical ambitions all the way, which brought me to this recording from the first CD this band and has been working with them since (she joined a few months ago). She is an AMAZING vocalist and musician (though she has problems using her abilities correctly sometimes and it isn't brought out in this recording), and she wants to go into the music industry, either on stage in musicals or in the studio. Right before I put this CD into my computer, I was really expecting a crappy CD. Maybe its because I heard the lead singer doing some acoustic work singing under pitch the whole time, maybe it was because she told me it wasn't too good, maybe it was even because I was mad she was in that band and not mine, I don't know. But I wasn't happy with the whole CD. In fact, I believe I picked out the best (sounding) song on the entire album. The guy vocalist is (mostly) singing in tune in this song, and this is one of the only song she sings in (the only one where she is "lead" vocal). Anyways, moving on.

The mix:
I believe that the drummer did all the recording and mixing in his attic studio. This probably explains a lot about the mix in general. I think the drums are good sounding, except for the snare (and the kick's a little weak). I have to agree with you about the sound of the snare, the weakness and the pizza box sound. The first thing I though when I heard the drums were "this guy hits the snare like a wimp." I don't think he understands the concept of micing a guitar cab. In fact, I don't think the song was tracked per instrument. I believe that it was run through a mixer and into a computer.

With all of this said,here comes the final question: should I volunteer to help them out in the future? I know that I can do much better than that recording, but i have a few things holding me back. First, I'd get paid nothing (which doesn't bother me too much at this point in my life). Next, i don't really know if this guy who did the mixing thinks he is good and wants to do it. Also, pretty much every other song is crappier than this. I know that Brandon has said he doesn't want to work with people not willing to get better. I believe they did one take of each song, heard it, and said, "meh, it sounds ok." I mean, working with and mixing a band that isn't very good is trying trying to make a guy look like a hot chick. There is only so much you can do. But like you said, I think this song is worth trying again. This band is pretty popular locally, and they band has some good energy in live situations. Can you guys help me out?

[.tom]

my critique re this mix is different than brandon's but instead of going there (you already have ideas for an improved production)i'll just speak to you about getting involved --you'd punish them dude. ha! i dont think you'll get anything but grief and you may blo your friend's opportunity (as she sees it). just try to support her efforts and if the band calls you in, be honest.... at least with yourself! that band has a long wayz to go b4 they (may)jell.... and yer right, that guy has a lazy ear.....

[thesilentdrummer]

Originally Posted by .tom

my critique re this mix is different than brandon's but instead of going there (you already have ideas for an improved production)i'll just speak to you about getting involved --you'd punish them dude. ha! i dont think you'll get anything but grief and you may blo your friend's opportunity (as she sees it). just try to support her efforts and if the band calls you in, be honest.... at least with yourself! that band has a long wayz to go b4 they (may)jell.... and yer right, that guy has a lazy ear.....

Thanks for your response. I am doing an event with her and my other good friend (he's my guitar man) where we are singing the national anthem. I will talk to her then, but am still open for suggestions. I am gonna print out Brandon's response to show her, and she what she thinks.

[.tom]

....a full report is expected

[DT Chris]

Here's my initial perception.

Singing is ghastly. The female singer sounds like she is singing through her nose and is getting a whiny effect out of the whole thing. Her leading note (on a new phrase) is quite off, she needs to make sure that note is good.

Male singer is way off key, again especially on the leading note of a phrase, as though he is trying to sing lower than his voice is able.

When they sing together, it sounds disjointed, and when both are off key, it isn't very pleasant.

As far as vocals on this track are concerned, the performance needs to be much better before mixing will be beneficial. The vocals are, in fact, ruining any pleasure in listening to the song. That's how bad I think they are. Sorry, but I'm like Simon Cowell - I tell it like it is.

Cymbals, crash hi-hats are extremely panned to either left or right?

Acoustic guitars are buried. I hear a few good licks in there but I can't make them out as much as I would like to.

Distorted guitar is all fizz, no substance.

Tested on Logitech X-530 5.1 speaker system

[.tom]

r u talking about that guy on that idol tv show? yik... he wouldn't no the difference between marilyn manson and thin lizzy. he's an entertainer on a corporate approved (sony brainwasher)shitty tv show, made for stupid clueless people that like to watch tv commercials, he's not a rok critic. he's a fuking tv producer. he's jerry springer. Ha! tells it like it is -not. you did tho

[thesilentdrummer]

Tom: Will give a full report.

DT Chris: I don't know if you read the entire thing I posted (don't really expect you to, lol), but long story short, I didn't record or mix this band. I really want to know is it worth it to get divine intervention with this band and work on future projects with them. I do like your comments. I agree completely about your vocal assessment, as I too couldn't enjoy them the least in their flat state. I also am not pleased with the stereo imaging of the set, and what you are hearing is a direct electric guitar, not an acoustic (which would actually sounds really good, if done right, now that you mention it). Distorted is DI too. And about not being simon cowell? I think I have more respect for you since you are not.

[DT Chris]

I do read all comments before replying, I was just headed out the door after I listened to the mix, so did a quick reply. Here's more;

Originally Posted by thesilentdrummer

I believe they did one take of each song, heard it, and said, "meh, it sounds ok."

And it shows...

Originally Posted by thesilentdrummer

With all of this said,here comes the final question: should I volunteer to help them out in the future?
Also, pretty much every other song is crappier than this.

This pretty much answers itself. If you don't think that a band is absolutely the rockin'est, bitchiest, super-cool group you have ever heard, and would do anything just to be around them, then no, you shouldn't volunteer to help them out.

In the bands I've been in, we always had people helping us out free of charge because they believed in us, in our talent, in our music, and most of all in our potential. Did this particular band go anywhere? No. But they thought we were going to - and that's what's important. We had free roadie services ("Just let me get in on the guest list"), to volunteer manager "I just shopped your demo to the Town Pump, the Zipper, and Lunatic Fringe today for you guys", as well as "Don't worry guys, we'll take good care of you" (helping us record a 3 song demo tape at a discount)

We treated all our helpers and 'fans' well in return of course, but it was always surprising to us how many people wanted to help us on our way to the top. Too bad the band couldn't stay together to take advantage of that.. Oh well, next band

On the band's side, if their engineer, manager, roadies, or what have you don't think their music's the shit, it will also show... If your recording engineer is going "Meh, one more take get this over with" it's probably not a good sign.

No, it's better off finding a band you absolutely love and dedicate your time to them. Perhaps members of this current band of which you will speak will improve, or join other projects - so you may be able to work with them again in the future, hopefully with music you will absolutely love.