Help! Need help mixing! And the EQ!

[Sam Joxer]

Originally Posted by julianrojo

The first thing I would try, is to expand the stereo image.
Try this and later we can discuss the eq and compression.
Download a free plugin called "audio plugin delay" from Voxengo.
Install It ()
Now duplicate the guitar track. Clone it.
One guitar pan it to one side (can be 100% or 60% experiment)
The other track pan it to the opp side (exact settings) and put the plugin.
The plugin have six numbers (0000.00). That´s the delay of the audio signal.
Experiment with values between (0005.00) and (0030.00 or 0035.00) more delay than that doesn´t works.

This procedure is called ADT (Automatic Double Take) and is great for creating Stereo tracks from mono. Of course if you convert to mono, the sum of the two waves will show some serious phase cancellation (you have to experiment with dealy values until it sounds good in both stereo and mono).

Have a nice try!

I know Im kind of butting in here on this, but why do you have to add the delay? Is it so that it sounds like a real Stereo recording, or could you leave it out and just double the track and pan it to the left and right sides, and still be ok for it sounding like a real recording?

[MetalDave]

Originally Posted by Sam Joxer

I know Im kind of butting in here on this, but why do you have to add the delay? Is it so that it sounds like a real Stereo recording, or could you leave it out and just double the track and pan it to the left and right sides, and still be ok for it sounding like a real recording?

I have to agree with Sam on this. If you take the exact same sound duplicate it, and pan them hard left and right, you will have mono when done. you still have the exact same thing coming out both sides. In the case of this song, I would not put any delay on the guitars as it would cover up the guitar playing ability. Delay is for slower sounds I would have to say to leave the delay out of this recording completely. Actually I think the song has enough depth already but, if you are looking for more depth another thing that could be done is take one side and add a tad more eq on the low end. dont eq both sides completely different or you will have phase problems. start out with a flat eq and just add one frequency say 200hz this would be a good way to get depth without covering up the guitar players ability.

[sparqee]

Whenever the discussion of double tracking comes up I always have to throw in a vote for really double tracking the part. If you're comfortable with your instrument (and the song) it doesn't take that much longer to record the second track and I find the subtle variations in playing usually sound far more pleasing than processing a copy of a track. In fact I prefer the sound of a true double track so much that I've been known to go in and time stretch distracting rhythmic problems to get the double track to really work well. If the part is too complex to easily double then with certain instruments it can work equally well to just do a similar yet different thing. Play a counter point part. Figure out a complimentary rhythm that will balance the stereo feel and enhance those phrases that warrant attention.

Personally, I find that the copy/paste/shift approach is a great way to add a little extra "something" in the final chorus, especially if you're going for a real dry/in your face sound (i.e. avoiding reverb) but it just doesn't "breath" enough. A track doubled like that starts to make a song sound artificial and fuzzy if it goes on too long. To my ear at least. <shrug>

[MetalDave]

Originally Posted by sparqee

Whenever the discussion of double tracking comes up I always have to throw in a vote for really double tracking the part. If you're comfortable with your instrument (and the song) it doesn't take that much longer to record the second track and I find the subtle variations in playing usually sound far more pleasing than processing a copy of a track. In fact I prefer the sound of a true double track so much that I've been known to go in and time stretch distracting rhythmic problems to get the double track to really work well. If the part is too complex to easily double then with certain instruments it can work equally well to just do a similar yet different thing. Play a counter point part. Figure out a complimentary rhythm that will balance the stereo feel and enhance those phrases that warrant attention.

Personally, I find that the copy/paste/shift approach is a great way to add a little extra "something" in the final chorus, especially if you're going for a real dry/in your face sound (i.e. avoiding reverb) but it just doesn't "breath" enough. A track doubled like that starts to make a song sound artificial and fuzzy if it goes on too long. To my ear at least. <shrug>

Right on sparqee. This tune may be a little tough to do that with but it would definately be worth a try.

[lolzgreg]

Real deal double tracking ALWAYS sounds better as long as you can play your instrument tight enough to repeat your results (if you can't, go home and practice).

Drums need power in this mix. Work on 250hz and take everyone elses advice.

-Greg

[SymbolicSystem]

Thanx a lot guys. I will really try your suggestions.

To summarize:
- a little more power to the drums EQ'ing them in the range from 80- ca 250.
- som adjustments to maybe just one guitar between 100-400 giving them a more meaty sound together...
- The base need a little more gain. Thru the EQ or just increasing the level?

I've recorded two different guitars and not doubled them. I didnt understand that part about duplicating well enough . U think I should just copy and paste one guitar and then time stretch it? Dont really know how that works... I've tried to duplicate the guitars on other songs I've made, but to me the only effect given was an increase in "output" level.

Final question: THE DRUMS
The drums are programmed on the same channel(track). Do you think I should lift out the kick to a separate channel, the same thing with the snare...??? So I gain more controll over them?

Thank you again

[julianrojo]

Maybe my english is not enough.

When i talked about "Audiodelay", this plugin add some time values to the wave. Latency. Not like a delay or pingpong...Is not really an effect, is a tool.

Of course double tracking is the best (and quad sometimes even better) but when Symbolic post the song, i thought that the guitar was mono. Only one guitar recorded. ADT is for cases when you have only one guitar.

I recorded a short example. There is no mix at all, only for the purpose of showing the ADT.

PD: the example isn´t very good. I Prefer some shorter delay (latency) of the signal. This is 21 ms or something like that

[MetalDave]

Yeah we know. Cool Edit Pro has stereo delay that does the same thing. You just have to dupe the track and go from there. I don't think this would be a good effect on this song unless done by the guitar player on the second track. this gives it the feel of 2 guitars for real.

[julianrojo]

I know for this song doesn´t work. I thought it was a mono guitar. It was a tip.
And when i say double tracking is to record 2 guitar separatedly and hard pan.
Anyway, simbolic how do you record your guitars? DI-Reamp or real amp miced?

Edit: Oh i read that you use amplitube I.
Ok. Download the TSS tube screamer, is a free vst. And use it before the amplitube. Some says that the best settings are Drive:0 Tone:5 Volume:5
Maybe you have to play with the tone dial. It sounds great, and gives a great attack definition.


For me, i don´t know if is something with the eq, but the guitars sound dull, muddy without enough attack. Maybe you have to compress them.

Which guitar is? Single coil or humbucker?

Cheers and luck.

[SymbolicSystem]

Ok. Download the TSS tube screamer, is a free vst. And use it before the amplitube. Some says that the best settings are Drive:0 Tone:5 Volume:5
Maybe you have to play with the tone dial. It sounds great, and gives a great attack definition.

I'll definately try the TSS - thank u for the tip. I've been tweaking and turning and switching back and forward, but I can not find a nice attack and tone from either Amplitube, my guitar or the EQ. I'm trying to understand the EQ thing and getting better at it I feel but its difficult. Maybe my equpment is limited meaning I can't get the sound I kind of hear in my head...

Which guitar is? Single coil or humbucker?

I've got an Ovation Preacher from 1973 I think, with humbuckers. I've tuned the whole guitar i D (not just D-drop). And I have changed to thicker strings. I so want a new guitar but can't afford it at the moment.