[cover] French song - Foule Sentimentale

[ncls]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to get some feedbacks about a song I'm mixing.
It's not really over yet (pretend mastering and some automation aren't done yet) but I'd like to know if I missed really big issues

I really thank you for your upcoming comments

PS: I know the bass sound is not really great, but I didn't really get a better sound. So I kept it

[m24p]

Sounds pretty good. The guitar performance has a few rough bits that could be fixed. I think that the male vox could be a bit louder if you make sure to cut a bit of presence out of them. This will allow the vocals to sound more balanced while allowing the female vox to keep the obvious lead position.

[ncls]

Thanks mate!

Great advice, I should try it soon so

[ncls]

The guitar performance has a few rough bits that could be fixed.

I think you speak about the first verse (guitar and vocal alone)

I think that the male vox could be a bit louder if you make sure to cut a bit of presence out of them.

Well, I tried that but I still don't know where to get (kill?) that 'presence'. I thought it was some highs but it didn't work, I cut some 5k cycles and it's not really better

[m24p]

I think you speak about the first verse (guitar and vocal alone)


Well, I tried that but I still don't know where to get (kill?) that 'presence'. I thought it was some highs but it didn't work, I cut some 5k cycles and it's not really better

I would have started at around 5k as well. Maybe it's more 3k this time? Play around with it and see of you can get it to work. If not, you can always turn them back down, but I felt like they were a bit too quiet as it was...

And yes, I only really noticed the guitar issues toward the beginning.

[LazyE]

i like this! i just wish i`d given french lessons at school more attention, i knew one day it would come back to bite me!
nice sounds

[Emma]

A lovely melodic sense to the song. I did notice some 'hesitance' in the guitar in the opening part, in particular, right at the beginning (2nd bar?).
I agree with m24p and would like a bit more volume from the male vocal. I found the piano a little percussive towards the end of the song and wondered whether, with the sentimental nature of the song, a bit more sustain on the piano could fit the mood more? There's a lovely sweet fragility to the female vox, nice!

[ncls]

i like this! i just wish i`d given french lessons at school more attention, i knew one day it would come back to bite me!
nice sounds

Ah ah, no worry. The lyrics speak about how we can be fooled by others, merchandising, the society and at the end, everything does matter at the same level (eating, job, life, love, shampoo or books...)
Here are the original song and full lyrics (thru Google translate)

[ncls]

I would have started at around 5k as well. Maybe it's more 3k this time? Play around with it and see of you can get it to work. If not, you can always turn them back down, but I felt like they were a bit too quiet as it was...

And yes, I only really noticed the guitar issues toward the beginning.

I found something and I killed it. So I brought back some highs and push the volume up a little.
I think it melted better in the mix now

Edit: here is the first chorus to see

[ncls]

A lovely melodic sense to the song. I did notice some 'hesitance' in the guitar in the opening part, in particular, right at the beginning (2nd bar?).
I agree with m24p and would like a bit more volume from the male vocal. I found the piano a little percussive towards the end of the song and wondered whether, with the sentimental nature of the song, a bit more sustain on the piano could fit the mood more? There's a lovely sweet fragility to the female vox, nice!

Oh, really great tips. I must try it.
I think that by fixing that guitar in the intro you mean some editing and also copy-paste things :/
The problem with that guitar player is he is really great at playing bossa, really but everything else is a bit odd to him and he couldn't remember what he supposed to play seconds before he had to play
It could explain the 'hesitance' part.


Edit: oh, if you have some ideas about the bass sound as great as those before, I really like to try.
My idea here (but I coudn't do it) is to have a light bass sound with clearly defined attack and release. Is is really clear enough?
Thanks all for those great comments, replies and advices.

Another edit, @Emma: I listened to your SoundCloud link and saw what could be a nice and great piano sound. Great sound and great songs by the way. Nice piano playing too, I really enjoyed it.
So I ask you tips about getting a better sound. In the song, the piano comes from a Korg PA5X and I really don't like it, it sounds too artificial but I have to deal with it

[m24p]

I found something and I killed it. So I brought back some highs and push the volume up a little.
I think it melted better in the mix now

Edit: here is the first chorus to see

Yes, that's what I meant. You could even turn the male vox a bit louder (1 dB?) than they are in this version and they still won't step on the lead role of the female vox.


For your goal with the bass tones. Are you compressing the bass? For a clearly defined attack in the bass, makes sure the compressor's attack is fairly slow (I'd probably start with 20 ms attack and 150 ms release than see what happens and tweak from there). A compressor really helps "fatten" something up by reducing the dynamic range, so when it's there, it's there. The "clarity" you're looking for could probably be had with the correct compressor settings plus some light saturation and careful EQ (you probably want to do a two octave, 3 dB cut at around 300 Hz after the saturation). The saturation will add in harmonics that are in the more sensitive area of a humans hearing but will be linked to the fundamental frequency of the bass, so the timbre will seem a little clearer. Cutting the low mids a little will shift the balance away from that muddy area of the tone to allow the subs (the "bass" part) and the high mids (the "clarity" part) to both shine through a little better.

Absolutely all the numbers I give are just my best guess - what I would start with if I were mixing the track. I always use my ears and tweak to decide what the real settings should be.

[ncls]

Yes, that's what I meant. You could even turn the male vox a bit louder (1 dB?) than they are in this version and they still won't step on the lead role of the female vox.


For your goal with the bass tones. Are you compressing the bass? For a clearly defined attack in the bass, makes sure the compressor's attack is fairly slow (I'd probably start with 20 ms attack and 150 ms release than see what happens and tweak from there). A compressor really helps "fatten" something up by reducing the dynamic range, so when it's there, it's there. The "clarity" you're looking for could probably be had with the correct compressor settings plus some light saturation and careful EQ (you probably want to do a two octave, 3 dB cut at around 300 Hz after the saturation). The saturation will add in harmonics that are in the more sensitive area of a humans hearing but will be linked to the fundamental frequency of the bass, so the timbre will seem a little clearer. Cutting the low mids a little will shift the balance away from that muddy area of the tone to allow the subs (the "bass" part) and the high mids (the "clarity" part) to both shine through a little better.

Absolutely all the numbers I give are just my best guess - what I would start with if I were mixing the track. I always use my ears and tweak to decide what the real settings should be.

I already tried it before... In the next extract, there are others settings, to see if it sounds better (I killed some some freqs around 256 Hz and 635 Hz to be precise )
I also tried to kill the percussive side of the piano. It seems better but I feel it seems a bit overcomp'd too

[Emma]

I've had to do some cross-referencing here as I was confusing myself..
I really like the vocal blend of your latest mix, there is a nice balance between the two vocals... I'm just feeling that there may be a small loss of tonal quality in the female vox.. it's something I tend to zone in on, a key driver for me is optimising the natural dynamic of the lead vocal. I just wondered whether you had added more compression to her vocal, or eq'ed a little of the top range as I just missed a small soaring resonance... but, I am very capable of imagining things too!!~ Do let me know if I'm imagining it

And thanks for your comments re my soundcloud... it's a new step for me. The piano is my instrument of choice and I've done quite a bit of exploring to get the sound that I like. In the end, via the helpful bods on this forum, I've found that the Alicia's Keys software is my preferred option. I have tried quite a lot of other software but it never felt 'right' for me. I also have a touch-sensitive keyboard which is a pretty vital ingredient for authentic-ish piano sound.

This is a cool song - loved the 'Cabaret' feel to the video.

[kakeux]

Hello!

Je vais quand même faire mon commentaire en anglais pour que tout le monde en profite.

Nice recording. I'm no fond of the song because I heard it too much, but hey that's just me.

As you only repost the choruses, I don't know if you retracked the guitars. Some hesitations are ok but some are...well too hesitant.

I prefer the lady vocal in your first clip. Despite the fact that the male vocal is more present and better in your last one. In the first clip, she has this litlle lovely whispered tone that I can't find anymore in the last one posted. I'm wondering as the last clip seems louder if the master buss compresor brings out too much the lows stuff in her vocal. Might be totally wrong here.

Anyway, it's sound quite good!

Cheers!

[ncls]

I've had to do some cross-referencing here as I was confusing myself..

Don't get it wrong. The final purpose of this recording (plus another 10 other songs) is to create a demo CD to meet barmen and getting some liveshows. It doesn't need to sound gorgeous, or perfect or radio-ready but as my really first recording, I like to bring as far as I could without having heavy headaches
I'd like it to sound great but not so amateurish. And because I heard so many times I'd like to have another and fresh ears to have feedbacks. If I also could get some great advices, I'll be very pleased with.

I really like the vocal blend of your latest mix, there is a nice balance between the two vocals... I'm just feeling that there may be a small loss of tonal quality in the female vox.. it's something I tend to zone in on, a key driver for me is optimising the natural dynamic of the lead vocal. I just wondered whether you had added more compression to her vocal, or eq'ed a little of the top range as I just missed a small soaring resonance... but, I am very capable of imagining things too!!~ Do let me know if I'm imagining it

I think I see what you mean but the recording conditions were not so perfect (mainly garage, really, and bedrooms). Plus, I feel the vocal performance lacks of something like smiling, pleasing, feeling or whatever that don't really mean something

And thanks for your comments re my soundcloud... it's a new step for me. The piano is my instrument of choice and I've done quite a bit of exploring to get the sound that I like. In the end, via the helpful bods on this forum, I've found that the Alicia's Keys software is my preferred option. I have tried quite a lot of other software but it never felt 'right' for me. I also have a touch-sensitive keyboard which is a pretty vital ingredient for authentic-ish piano sound.

It sounds really great to me, like songwriter songs mainly. I'd like to hear some more.
I also heard some great feedbacks about this piano, and I'm still not a big fan of that girl.
In your songs, it sounds (sorry Brandon) full, w@rm enough to enhance your voice, not to bright to let some room, really nothing to complain about.

This is a cool song - loved the 'Cabaret' feel to the video.

Since I didn't watch it for a long time, I didn't remember this clip at all. I remembered the first time I saw it, it was less 'Cabaret' side, really grey but not as cut and distracting as this one.

Thanks again for your great tip. I really appreciate.
Now, I know there are some great piano songwriters here. I have some in my head or as MIDI file too, well, only piano song

[ncls]

Je vais quand même faire mon commentaire en anglais pour que tout le monde en profite.

French private joke spotted

Nice recording. I'm no fond of the song because I heard it too much, but hey that's just me.

Really the same to me. This is not a song I enjoy and it's really boring to play (the same chords in the same order, with a boring strimming scheme, without any changes )

As you only repost the choruses, I don't know if you retracked the guitars. Some hesitations are ok but some are...well too hesitant.

I prefer the lady vocal in your first clip. Despite the fact that the male vocal is more present and better in your last one. In the first clip, she has this litlle lovely whispered tone that I can't find anymore in the last one posted. I'm wondering as the last clip seems louder if the master buss compresor brings out too much the lows stuff in her vocal. Might be totally wrong here.

I couldn't retrack the guitar, because this performance is the best I could get from the guitar player (after heavy editing )
I'm going to do some other editing for the first verse and that's all for that part.
I swear there is no change on the female vocal only the male one got some tweaking. The master bus didn't bear heavy compression but it can be some side-effect, for sure.
Oh yes, I added a (light) deesser because I found that sometimes, the very highs are bit aggressive to me. Very accurate ears


Here is another try, after your comments (for all).

[ncls]

So, here is the intro, with heavy editing (meaning I shift timing position nearly every two notes).
I hope I don't destroy the soul of the guitar playing

[m24p]

I think the editing is fine.

[ncls]

I think the editing is fine.

Ok then. I'm going to do some automation, some fine tweaking, a pretend mastering and I'll upload the result later.
Thanks a lot all of you!

[kakeux]

Yes, editing works fine. Nice! At 0:28 there is a strange glitch happening.

[ncls]

Oh I see, it was an editing glitch I missed it. There is another one at the really beginning.
This is one thing I really don't know how to do properly: making some edits avoiding those glitches.
Each time I have to do one, I carefully put the cursor before the attack but after the previous note, then split the item and more this cut point to the right location. But the two new items have some fades-in/out and it creates a really tiny gap of silence. Sometimes it's audible like those two glitches

[ncls]

The next step can be heard here: [cover] French song - Foule Sentimentale (twice)