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paul999

Maximizing Cheap Daw F/X. A lesson from 2 challanging projects.

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by , 04-08-2012 at 11:35 AM (1453 Views)
Challenging project 1

I finished a strange gig. A local theater company needed a pianist to record a very complex score and then play the vocal lines on a separate track so I could make a mix for the production and a mix for them to learn vocal lines. It was a total of 55minutes of recorded music. Piano only. I needed to be able to record quickly so I thought that using a keyboard rather then micing my piano was the right thing to do. I hired a piano player and asked him to bring his keyboard. A couple weeks later when it was time to do the session he shows up without the keyboard All I had was a cheap Yamaha keyboard (brutally entry level) from a client who left it there for a current project. I hooked it up and decided I could use some of my "big boy toys" to make it sound better. In other words it would end up sounding like a cheap keyboard with expensive f/x

At mix time when I realized that 55 minutes of music bounced 2 times in real time plus fades etc. was going to make a 4 hour nasty process I realized I needed to do this ITB to stay on budget. The first thing I did was fire up all the outboard F/X and get a nice sounding piano. In fact with my lexicons and eventide f/x it was pretty easy to get a nice lush not overly processed sounding piano in under 4 minutes. Now the challenge...... do this ITB.

Time to dig in

It took about 25 min but I got what I consider to be a pretty good sounding piano that was lush and natural enough and was 85% of what I had with my fancy toys. I was using stock logic plugs and this is what I learned.

-You can't use a much reverb when you are using crappy verbs. I had to get over this.
-Making a send and combining cheap f/x is highly effective.

Details

On this project I made a stereo reverb send I eq'd it by rolling off some highs and lows plus pulling a little 300 ish out of it. I added an effect called ensemble which is like a chorus with some flange. I used a very small amount but this smooths the reverb gluing it to the source a little better. I also used a transient designer. This is a trick I learned on overheads as well. If you elongate the sustain it adds a little more excitement to the reverb.

Challenging project 2

I've had 3 clients who previously abandoned projects, because of funds running out, come back this year to finish up. One is from 4 years ago before I had good convertors and mic pre's. I had good mic's but that is about it. This was a country tune that needed a guitar solo and vocals added. In present day I hired a vocalist and recorded the solo's on my new rig. I didn't think about these facts until I got into the mix. I noticed I was struggling to get things to sit forward. It seemed mushy. When I realized why I immediately changed my tactic's which helped. Because the vocals and solo's sat forward naturally because they were recorded with higher fidelity I let the standing bass, rhythm guitar and drums(brushes) sit back. This meant that when I went to add f/x to the vocals that the F/X didn't sit in the mix. It was like have bass, drums and rhythm in the back, f/x in front of them and them vocals and solo's in front of that. What I needed was to get my f/x deeper into the sonic image while staying glued to the sources. On vocals I new I wanted a half note delay and a slap back delay so I made 2 aux's, one for each. I rolled off some top and bottom but then taking a lesson from my previous keyboard challenge I added a little chorus and reverb to my delays. This hid them a little and sat them closer to the bass, guitar and drums. Granted this time I was firing on all cylinders and not using cheap DAW f/x but the same would apply if I were.

Routing description

I am using 7 aux sends PCM 70, PCM 90 LEFT, PCM 90 Right, Eventide left, Eventide right, Long delay, short delay. On my long delay channel I add a little of the PCM 70 and 90 as well as the eventide. This really hides the delays while gluing them to the source. It also means you can add more to increase the smoothing effect delay has. If a person had a stereo reverb like I described in the first challenge and made a delay using that reverb I think they would be pleasantly surprised.

More details

Using a transient designer on the delay to lesson the attack really hides the delay. It is quite incredible.
Combining f/x really takes them to the next level. It gives a sense of a cohesive environment. It also stops the tendency where DAW reverbs tend to feel separate from the source you put them on.

Also add reverbs to your room mic's first. Then you'll need much less on the actual source.

Limitations

With these methods you won't get super big lush reverbs out of your DAW that you'll love to listen to. I can get that with my Lexicons. What you will get is reverbs that are useable and don't muddy up your mix. You'll end up with a recording that doesn't feel dry and doesn't feel wet.

Conclusion

I am encouraged that I will be taking my high end F/X to the next level and achieving better sounds using these methods. These strategies answer some questions that were burning into my soul for years about F/X. I hope they help a couple of others.

Cheers
Paul
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Comments

  1. Stan_Halen's Avatar
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    Great stuff Paul! I have been looking for better ways to "glue" things together. Thanks for sharing!
  2. brandondrury's Avatar
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    I also used a transient designer. This is a trick I learned on overheads as well. If you elongate the sustain it adds a little more excitement to the reverb.
    Hmmm. That's a fun, new one!

    Using a transient designer on the delay to lesson the attack really hides the delay. It is quite incredible.
    Interesting. It seems this could move it in the direction of reverb and allow you to use brighter delays if you were so inclined.

    Also add reverbs to your room mic's first. Then you'll need much less on the actual source.
    One of my favorite tricks.
  3. Mackanov's Avatar
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    I have used a slow gate on delays before to get rid of that initial transient, but never thought of a transient designer. Great tip!
  4. brandondrury's Avatar
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    I have used a slow gate on delays before to get rid of that initial transient
    I'm guess this is for an initial track with sparse "stuff". The loud thing comes in, the gate decides to open 500ms later letting the rest of the delay through? Am I close? Just curious. Never tried this one.

    Brandon
  5. Mackanov's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by brandondrury
    I'm guess this is for an initial track with sparse "stuff". The loud thing comes in, the gate decides to open 500ms later letting the rest of the delay through? Am I close? Just curious. Never tried this one.

    Brandon
    For instance, on the Clockwork competition (which I ended up never finishing), I was getting really annoyed by the delay on the vocals bringin out lip smacks and plosives at the beginning of words, but I liked the vocals with them in. So I put a gate with a lowish threshold set to around 40ms attack I guess on a send track and the delay after that. The result is that the initial transient on words never made it to the delay. I have used this with acoustic guitars as well to "round" them up a bit - I guess you could call this a "transient smearer" - with a louder threshold, so it'll open only after loud transients and close a little bit later. Really makes the delay feel more subtle even though it can be pretty loud in the mix.
    brandondrury likes this.
  6. brandondrury's Avatar
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    Got it. That makes a lot more sense.
  7. Jeronimo Mora's Avatar
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    I suppose it would be HORRIBLY impractical to have done this due to the length of the song. But I am curious about (In theory) putting a piano track into something like, idk, VariAudio in Cubase for example. Would the MIDI be accurate enough to fake a performance (assuming a shorter song, of course). It seems like it could go both ways.
  8. Mackanov's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jeronimo Mora
    I suppose it would be HORRIBLY impractical to have done this due to the length of the song. But I am curious about (In theory) putting a piano track into something like, idk, VariAudio in Cubase for example. Would the MIDI be accurate enough to fake a performance (assuming a shorter song, of course). It seems like it could go both ways.
    I don't know about Variaudio, but I have done this with Melodyne with DNA. Does Variaudio allow for polyphonic material?
  9. Jeronimo Mora's Avatar
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    Yes it does. I remember using it to correct Clockwork Clown and seeing powerchords. I didn't pay attention to see if it was efficient though.
  10. dudermn's Avatar
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    I was gonna write an article like this but I had to wait around for a new hard-drive cause of a DIY accident..... anyways.
    This is my
    Heirarchey of audio production

    The Recording Bit.
    Room Personality (in this first little step just sit in the middle of the room making howler monkey sounds and ya'll catch the room persona)
    Dampening
    Proper Performance (and tunning)
    Proper input, this includes stuff like ADA and DAD...
    Labeled Tracks just to make everything purdy.

    The Production Bit
    Good Hard-ware (hard-drives, cpus, etc)
    Comfortable knowledge of plug-ins
    Good attitude
    Perfect understanding of what the song is
    Anti-slacking mentality

    Techniques
    Pan
    Eq
    Compression (if needed)
    Pitch-fix
    Split
    Cleaning
    Enhance (Formant, amp sim, desser,etc)
    Reverb (on tracks and on mix and on buses)
    Delays (Same thing as reverb.)
    Tricks (Dupliate track ran at lower volume as a delay for example)
    Combine techniques
    Pan

    Hard Workin
    I usually work with 'beds' with any project that has more than 4 track (even with song that have 4 tracks). I'll render the drums for example to a nice pretty, clean, and simple to use .wav. Of course this is the same thing as sending all the tracks to a separate bus that handles just the drums, but some times when you want to pitch shift just the kick to an octave lower.... There's no choice but to render, for the sake of not having any 'artificats'.
    For example, I'll start off with the most important part of a song.
    The first mix-down
    The Drums - These then go into the second mix as beds, and I work them separately (Rethinking The Solo Button)
    The Bass
    The Guitar(s) - I usually use just 2 or 3 guitars at this stage.
    Maybe...
    The Vocals- but the lead only
    These all get put together as 1 bed (of course if there are 20 guitar tracks, I'll go through all of them, get the tone 'they' were looking for from just 2-3 (if I can get away with it) of the tracks and render, or if the backing vocals have more than 10 tracks I make sure to filter them before the big sum to just one .wav phase). Other things like synths, and effects, and what not get run down to pakks .wav

    So ya, I really prefer working with 'beds' over straining my hard-drive to load up 30 different wavs at the same time and running 100 vsts off my processors. It's also really nice when I see just 4-5 tracks for a song IE:
    drs| -----------
    Copy of dr| ------------
    B | ------------
    Gr| -----------
    Monkies|------------
    Copy of M|--------------
    Xtracrp |--------------

    It usually looks like that, I copy over drum tracks for example, and cut out everything but, the very very high end to help things sit more comfy, which usually gets sent to a send to add a little reverb on the right side channel.

    Though, it's hard to pull off because of the 'imagination' 'requirement'. If there is a keyboard that needs to end up in a pakk1.wav instead of the 'idea'.wav (because it's just an olive and not really part of the song) its very easy to make that keyboard become unpleasantly inconspicuous. With a good understanding of the songs direction though, how the keyboard olive branch is intended to fit along side to a djembe, because pakk1.wav usually includes tracks that don't sound a thing like the song (unless the mix1.wav is played along side um) is easier to figure out, as long as the understanding is present.

    Finalize
    At the end of the day though, No-one will ever be the wiser to all this hard work. As I still delete everything but the Master.wav. This is to keep me from ever going back and saying, maybe I can do that better. It'll mess with my feng shui. And each song has it's own zen....They way it turned out is the way it's supposed to turn out (hopefully). You don't see people with handicapped babies constantly making more kids trying to 'get it right'.

    Another thing I noticed is that if I work on 5 songs at a time (make the drum bed for a song, move to the next one) it seems to help keep my ears fresh, and it's fun to multi-task, it feels like shopping with 20 women.
  11. JoshERTW's Avatar
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    ...fun... shopping with 20 women.
    FUN? This is what I would consider an accurate description of hell.
  12. ZanetheVocalist's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JoshERTW
    FUN? This is what I would consider an accurate description of hell.
    True. Unless you're helping them shop for lingerie and get to test how easy it is to take off
    Mackanov likes this.
    Updated 04-12-2012 at 10:08 AM by ZanetheVocalist (OCD for correct spelling)
  13. lsutigh's Avatar
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    Paul, this was an awesome read. I have never taken the time to use the transient designer, quite frankly cause I'm working a little to quickly and I haven't found time to properly learn it.

    The question is are you using the hardware version, or the software version?
  14. paul999's Avatar
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    I am using the built in logic TD and stillwell TD. I am always saying I'll get the SPL but these seem to work for me.
  15. Emma's Avatar
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    Cool blog thanks Paul... I'm absorbing it very slowly (as usual!!) but am really interested in this stuff and still trying to get my head around the role of transient designers.