BenJaMan

I've been a PC user for 25 years.... I'm making the move to Mac with my next purchase.
In fact, I think my whole household will be making the move.

The snowleopard OSX has outperformed Windows in benchmark tests. Its based on a simple BSD open codebase, and not complicated like the object orientated windows kernal services.

The snowleopard OS X operating system for modern Mac desktop, servers and laptops is compatible with Intel based computers as well as older Mac processors. So it will run on a non-mac laptop, as long as it has a intel based CPU. So you could have a dual boot laptop windows and snowleopard on any intel based laptops. But gotta say also Mac notebooks have some choice hardware, Like the hi-thruput firewire port.

I know someone who is selling dual boot laptops, with windows 7 and snowleopard OS X, so it can be done.

@ nolimore - i have been reading a little about 'hackintosh's and dual boots -

i was thinking about moving all my [ document, photo, video, studio ] files to my 2nd drive, buying a new 2Tb hard drive and doing a fresh install of windows - i can also install snow leopard on a partition that way ? that means i can have a brand new mac & brand new pc for about $3-400 ? i currently have 3Gb memory and am planning on maxing that out - will snow leopard recognize more than 4Gb, say, if i put in 8Gb ? would the snow leopard install on the windows laptop be a good [ inexpensive ] way to test out using that OS and workflow, or would it be gimp'ed to the point of further frustration?

also i see you can install windows on a mac via bootcamp - is this the better - albeit 5X+ more expensive - way to go?

edit: [ what was i thinking when i wrote that ? windows on a mac ? that defeats the purpose - i'd just keep my laptop running windows ! i really would only be interested in running OSX on the pc ]

thanks for your time & input

If you alreay have a vista laptop, you can use a dual-boot component, that will allow you to select more than one OS; windows, snowleopard, linux. I will be honest, I have not installed a dual-boot system before, only used them.

The most popular commercial dual-boot component is Acronis Disk Manager 11. It does a whole load of other things as well, with hard disk and partition management. It has good reviews and around $50 or otherwise Its the idea you pay money and you get less hassles and let the installation take care of its own business. I don't know much about the Mac side.

So installing a dual boot on your current PC-laptop e.g. vista and snowleopard is possible. It has been done; you can verify and feel more confident by checking out forum websites of people that have done this, again I know someone who has made a success out of selling these two OS as dual-boot machines.

I haven't checked lately the iMacs. Apple products are class. The tradition and its reputation. I think they innovated SCSI buses and Firewire data port. They are too expensive.

If the OS is 32-bits the max memory it can address is approx. 4GB
If the OS is 64-bit the max memory it can address is approx. 190GB

^Theoretically. The bit-size is based on exponentiation base 2. And that's the size of data that the system uses for virtual memory addressing, which gets translated by the memory firmware (logical address) and harware (physical address). Thats the secret.

So it will depend what version of vista you got when you upgrade your RAM.

Snowleopard is supposed to be a hybrid of both 32 and 64, so it can switch between
32-bit and 64-bit virtual memory addressing schemes when it needs to, so of what
technical i've read thus far.

So 8GB of Memory should work on Snowleopard but not work on Vista (check your edition)

i do have 64bit vista, so it should accept more RAM and i shouldn't NEED to upgrade to win 7 ?. although i've heard win 7 is better for audio and then there's fredd who thinks win 7 was built to run skype... any thoughts there?

what has your experience been on the dual-boot systems you used ?
1)were they mac or pc to begin with before dual-boot?
2)did you use both operating systems?

I can't comment on the Mac side. It seems they "just work" for many. I know too many people who have the "usually just work" feature to believe that there is anything THAT special about them in terms of reliability. Then again, I build all my PCs and have no problem tearing into them and fixing stuff from time to time. I personally prefer the latter. I'm psycho-independent so when it doesn't work, I like going online and finding a solution that I can usually implement in 2 minutes. It seems that Mac guys are....less accustomed to fixing and it's a real freakin' problem when they do have to fix it. (A buddy had to make a 4 hour round trip to swap a hard drive in his Mac. I have spares laying around and could swap one in 49 seconds.) It's just a different way of doing things. Neither is better all the time.

I've found that my 3 computers with Windows 7 just work. I've been VERY happy with Win 7 64 on my home computer, recording computer, and video computer. It's almost like Windows randomly decided to make a good product. That must have hurt.

While the usability thing is probably always going to be won by Mac, I've found Windows 7 to be an improvement over XP. It's file search thing is SUPER fast. I dig that. For everything else I don't notice the OS when using specific software.

From a horsepower standpoint, I want to see a Mac that compete on a bang-for-buck level with my video computer. For $1,500 I got an Intel 2600k / 16GB RAM / $300 video card setup with 2 Sata 3 2TB drives. I can play back uncompressed HD (with effects) in Premiere with no problem. This thing is fast. Really fast. Zero reliability issues to date.

I think the words video and laptop go together like a penis and a penis. (For gay dudes, video and laptop go together like a penis and a vagina.) Maybe the new laptops are keeping up, but I have my reservations.

Brandon

i do have 64bit vista, so it should accept more RAM and i shouldn't NEED to upgrade to win 7 ?. although i've heard win 7 is better for audio and then there's fredd who thinks win 7 was built to run skype... any thoughts there?

Sorry your correct and you read carefully.



I made a mistake saying your 'Vista' wouldn't work with an 8GB, last minute whim. So if your version of 'Vista' is 64-bit, it would work with an 8GB upgrade. A 64-bit virtual addressing scheme will theoretically be able to address 190Gb of RAM memory.

In my 'shaolin monk' days, I used to use dual-boot systems when i was at uni, workstations running windows2k and mandrake linux. I have civil and commercial work experience too. Plus I have systems level programming, so I understand 'what goes on under the bonnet.

But now I am a better cook and their is nothing like an entree of oysters, followed by rare 'carne', and ending up with mouth-2-mouth pineapple chunks and the rhythm of the night for 'Le' and 'La' and ooo-la-la. It beats duo dining, two plates on opposite sides with a sausage and two boiled potatoes arranged on either side.. so...perish the thought. But I do a good english in the morning, all the trimings and strong tea/coffee; just to thank 'La' for the ooolala.

These dual boot programs or modules, modify the bootstrap address pointer to the address of operating system startup process. The is made to point to the dual boot program. The bootstrap loader is in a special partition called the 'boot partition' or boot sector. The program is then installed on the boot partition. The dual boot program might also format a partitition for each operating system, etc.

If you want to hack it, using command line tools you can and run the risk of error if you haven't backed up, there are plenty of tools, hints and guides to do this on the web. I'll PM you.

thanks, brandon . glad to hear win 7 working well for you . my even becoming open minded to macs is like you making a test run of PT9 [ shudder ] . yeah, as far as i've seen, a mac will "just work" until it doesn't and then you're stuck paying $$$$$$ for a 'genius' to do something you could easily dig in and fix on a windows machine . i always prefer the advanced power user control over the "so-called-easy-to-use-but-have-no-real-control-wizard" of anything .

i know i'm probably asking a bit much of a laptop [ lmfao @ peen / vag comment ] in the visual dept - i just haven't had ANY issues w/ track count, or a billion plug-ins in cubase 5 - i've specifically tried to max out the system by running 8 plugs on 24 tracks feeding all kind of busses and fx send/return channels with multiple inserts, and my lil' mobile rig barely bats an eyelash !

i wouldn't be surprised at my system taking a while rendering HD, but just IMPORTING into premier Elements got my shit all choked up . maybe it's not my system - maybe its the [ dumbed down ] elements software ? i know i NEED the real version, but hey, $50 vs $800, i figured i'd start makin a bit of money in that dept to finance that larger purchase instead of takin out more credit that i'd rather use on recording gear

i'd rather stick to my comfort zone and do a purpose-specific custom build - i definitely know bang-for-buck-wise that's the way to go, but am just trying to weigh my options, as this is the first time in a while [ forever, really ] i've been open to "paying-for-the-brand-name" IF the experience [ not hype ] truly warrants it .

i know its best to keep a clean/no-internet/anti-virus workstation separate from personal, internet 'home' computer, but how important is it [ reliability / performance-wise ] to have a separate rig for recording vs. video ?

thanks for the advice !

Originally Posted by nolimore

...if your version of 'Vista' is 64-bit, it would work with an 8GB upgrade. A 64-bit virtual addressing scheme will theoretically be able to address 190Gb of RAM memory.

Any special steps i need to take or just drop it in and check BIOS? if it's that easy my upgrade path might just be 2 x 8GB and... done .

If you want to hack it, using command line tools you can and run the risk of error if you haven't backed up, there are plenty of tools, hints and guides to do this on the web. I'll PM you.

not into hacking - got music to make . i wouldn't install win on a new mac if i bought one . i was just thinking that if snow leopard OS & iMovie are indeed quicker, instead of buying a whole new $2000+ box, could i just spend a couple hun' on the OS itself and run that on my current system - efficiently - or would dual-boot make any performance gains negligible?

my options in order of expense:
1) more ram, fresh HD & windows on current system
2) hackintosh on #1
3) custom brandon-style build
4) new mac

in a perfect world i'd quite readily choose option 3, but due to budgetary constraints, i'll probably end up trying #1 and see how that goes, but i appreciate the feedback and being able to weigh the pro's and con's to each approach before i spend the hard-earned dough

The biggest trouble with these discussions is most Mac people are happy and and most PC people are happy. It's usually the people that have had trouble with PC that go Mac (and most end up loving it) but some switch back. I think it's a crapshoot. The only thing valuable is when something changes. For me Windows 7 is a SIGNIFICANT change. It's basically the same OS, but I have dramatically fewer issues. Most importantly, the few little issues I've had did it for a reason. (Kontakt kept crashing until I updated it, for example.) It was a reliable kind of problem that was troubleshoot-able.

i wouldn't be surprised at my system taking a while rendering HD, but just IMPORTING into premier Elements got my shit all choked up

I'm just a baby with Premiere, but...

1) Are you dragging the files from your flash card thing to your hard drive and then importing? I always go to the hard drive first with the RAW files. It runs way smoother for me.

2) I think it's system dependent, but during the import I believe it's creating the preview video, which is processor intensive. (I'm not positive about this one.)

BTW, I have NO BUSINESS talking video....EVER...obviously.

Choosing between fighting with your current computer or going with a new rig is always a crapshoot. That's more of a financial decision as you know new stuff is going to be faster.

I'm of the opinion that formatting always SEEMS to make a Windows machine run smoother. With that said, I'd be surprised by there being THAT much difference between Vista and Windows 7 or whatever when it comes to being able to do what you need to do.

Brandon

Brandon has pointed out that you got Mac and PC users that like or attached to their computer OS. Whether you like or have conformed too.

If you have 64-bit Vista AND a 64-bit CPU processor AND a 64-bit compatible motherboard that has enough slots for 8GB, you should be okay. In theory for the above 64-bit components you can have 16Exabytes of memory. In other words all the 'components' should work together fine. But make sure all the specification of the the CPU, Motherboard and OS are true. I cannot proove this because I don't have access to your machine. Once RAM installed you can check 'system' or 'device manager', or check your BIOS on start up; guess you need eagle eyes for that!

As for running a dual-boot loader, that is okay. Hacking it or doing it manually with tools is time intensive and risk. Best to buy off-the-shelf software for that e.g. Acronis Disk Manager 11. So advice is look into the subject on the web. With Snowleopard OSX and Windows on one machine you will be able to take advantage of both platforms applications.

Snowleopard OS standard is under £20. A robust commercial dual-boot £30-40. Best to check web.

A Memory Upgrade will reduce the usage of the systems virtual memory - storing parts of cubase or premiere on hard disk and swapping it back into main memory RAM. Your plugin volume will have 'more' in Cubase memory space. Defragging your hard disk occassionally, will optimise things too, keeps things 'neat and tidy' and data access reads faster.

As your data handling becomes more intensive; video and audio. areas such as faster data port (firewire), fast video card and audio card, which might have fast data ports on their interface and fast volume hard disks (SCSI). Just for an open foresight.

!!! Good luck!

I've been using a Macbook Pro in my recording studio for a little over a year now... I love it. To me, the biggest things are the OS and the positive results I've had as far as reliability. It sounds dumb but a big plus of my mac is its sleek look and that little apple on the back... it tells my clients that "I'm serious about music"... whatever that means. I think macs are fun... are they better than a pc?... the world will never know. I do want to build a rackmount computer for my studio and this will certainly be a pc or a "hackintosh"... I'm not dropping $3k on a Mac Pro when I can build a faster computer for half the price in the pc world. Besides, I already spent $2k on my Macbook Pro!

Just wanted to add 'hacking' a PC to run OSX sounds a lot more harder and risky than it actually is. In fact there is not much hacking involved if you buy the parts that have been confirmed to work. You pretty much install from retail disk and everything works. There may be a couple of things to install but thats all. It used to be a lot harder and time consuming but those times have gone. You can now pretty much install straight from the retail OSX disk and have OSX up and running on your PC in an less than an hour thanks to the ever growing OSX86 community.

Here are some builds (list of parts confirmed to work) for different budgets: tonymacx86 Blog: CustoMac
I also started a thread on the forums about this with more useful links: http://forum.recordingreview.com/f58...c-guide-30790/

Of course if you don't feel comfortable building a system having bought the components yourself thats another matter. Then you pay a premium for ready built stuff on PC or Mac platforms.

If your not a computer whiz, go with Mac they " just work " If you know computers inside and out, than you can get pc's to work. I have a friend who decided to run pc along with his Mac and he had nothing but problems with his pc.
PC's have to be customized to work without crashing. Mac's work right out of the box. Mind you, I'm using Logic, which I picked because I knew it would be compatible.
I had a choice and I went with Mac. I'm very happy with it.

I've had a few Mac's in my time on this earth, and I have to day that if you build your own pc you could get a lot of bang for your buck and ton's of performance.
In home studio I used to have a 24inch Imac ,SL , 2.66ghz Intel core duo and a Dell Xps 435 Intel Quad core i7920 running Vista 64 and both ran great. Some things came up and had to get rid of them. When I finally had the chance to get a new computer I built my own.
The price was $1124.00 all together.
Haf X Casing ( Compartment that hides cables = great cable management, great cooling, 2 Hard Disk hot swap bays, plus a SSD tray)
Sandy Bridge 2600k at 4.1ghz
8gb Ram
3x500gb samsung f3 drives
$250.00 video card
750 watt power supply. (A lot of pc manufactures use cheap power supplies which contribute to directly to performance issues)
Win 7 64 running Great know issues (fast)

(I have never had problems getting a pc up and running right out the box).

The only difference between a Mac an a pc is video editing software, since you can get adobe premiere for pc I guess that ends that.
I movie is really effective and yields great results fast. Final Cut Pro is the standard. Sony has vegas and that's the pc version of final cut.

I personally would use a Mac for video and a Pc for music. I have already and it's a great team. You can network your pc to your mac through a single ether net cable, I did that with my set up and used my imac as an internet modem for my pc. I was able to transfer instrumental files onto my mac from my pc so I could record in pro tools in the mac. The options are endless

I have never had an issue with recording interfaces and sound cards on my win 7 machine, that now runs PT, Reason, Fl Studio, a ton of vst's and Record. I connected my 7 year old m audio fw 410 with no issues, I connected my Mbox 3 with no issues.

It usually comes down to operator error most of the time. I would recommend buying the premium parts at Micro Center ( if you have one in your town) and having them build it for you. (It'll be done quick and they what they are doing). I had someone on craigslist build mine and he did a great job, I was very lucky. No issues here.

The Haf X case has 2 hot swap bays in the front, I forgot to add that it also has space for 5 hard drives including the SSD tray for solid state drives.

Specifications
Color Black
Material Steel + Plastic
Dimension (W / H / D) 230 x 599 x 550 mm / 9.1 x 23.6 x 21.7 inch
Weight Net Weight:14.35 kg / 31.6 lbs ; Gross Weight:16.08 kg / 35.5 lbs
M/B Type M-ATX / ATX / E-ATX / GIGABYTE XL-ATX
5.25" Drive Bay 6 (2 converted SATA HDD drive bay available)
3.5" Drive Bay 5 Hidden
(2 in 1 2.5" and 1.8" SSD drive support)
2.5"/3.5"- SATA HDD Drive Bay 2 (converted from 5.25” drive bays)
I/O Panel USB 3.0 x 2,USB 2.0 x 2, IEEE 1394a x 1, e-SATA x 1, Audio x 1, Mic x 1,
Expansion Slots 9
Cooling System Front:230 x 30 mm red LED fan on/off x 1
Top:200 x 30mm fans x 2 (one optional)
Side:200 x 30mm fan x 1
Rear:140 x 25mm fan x 1
VGA Fan Duct:120 x 25 mm or 120 x 38 mm fan x 1(optional)
VGA Holder:80 x 15 mm fan x 1(optional)
Power Supply Bottom / Standard ATX PS2(optional)
Maximum Compatibility VGA Card length :342.0mm
CPU cooler height:190.0mm

Mac vs PC ?
Performance Test Example: How many plugins without clicking at lowest latency (032, 064, 128,256) by using a RME HDSP AIO?
Comparing a single i7 920 @ stock speed with 6GB DDR3 Triple Channel RAM (Win7x64) - basically a $1200-$1500 PC with a $2499 baseline 4-Core Mac Pro (Mac OS 10.6.2).



This test confirms what Ive always felt: Macs are way overpriced and under powered compared to PC's. It also confirms that Steve Jobs can sell refrigerators to eskimoes. He is the master.